U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case - Discussion Boards

expat

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 12, 2008 - 01:31 AM

woohoo, sarcasm !!! the last resort of the scoundrel ! *

The reality will be KANGAROO COURT like the Sadam Hussein trial with vieled witnesses and hearsay.

Hearsay and forced and tortured confessions *

Are we hopping mad yet???

This post was edited on: 2008-02-12 at 01:40 AM by: Expat1970

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Merlyn

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 13, 2008 - 12:14 PM

My friend the Kafir,

It's keen you decided to post something with potential enough to make all your so-called rational reasoning bubble to blow up in a second.

Hey, the country you defend so fiercely and seemingly are proud of being representative of is now trying to execute humans. Yes, these are humans just like yourself and myself. The difference is that they did something they believed in and turned out that many people died as a consequence. So what? does that warrant a death sentence advocated by no other than the most democracy-induced and freedom promoting country in the world, which condemns left and right when a citizen of its own or bunch of friendly country citizens are blown up somewhere in the world?? Or is this personal now? Its your citizens affected and that is why you become sensitive enough to give up your constitutional principles and ask for trial by death??

Hey what about the more than a dozen of states in your own country with a death sentence as a legitimate punishment??? oh, you poor freedom, human right equality and democracy promoting idealists.....

Wanna bring to justice those who cause death of innocents??? what about giving up the double standard and actually sticking for once to principles you have been preaching for last 150 years, huh?? what about bringing Founding Father of the US such as Washington to justice for their orchestrated and successfully performed "feats" of Aboriginal massacres, or - for those with failing memories - Nixon, Kissinger, Reagan, Clinton and of course the Bush family for Waterloo, Iran Contra, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, East Timor and countless other militarily caused deaths of millions of millions??? oh, let me be indulgent and forget for the moment the neocons as Latinos call Friedman and his rightists privatisation-solves-it-all friends and policies??? millions of death caused indirectly by American globalavictimization???

Dear Kafir, you of all people, should be reflective before launching a tirade on other countries.. you of all people should know better than posting the petty articles from equally petty-minded people and constructing your allegedly solid rationale with as much rhetoric that Cicero would be proud seeing..

Remember, what goes around,comes around, sooner or later. Many empires rose and fell...American might well one day go the same way, and that day might be all not that far...

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 13, 2008 - 08:37 PM

elemental wrote:

My friend the Kafir,

It's keen you decided to post something with potential enough to make all your so-called rational reasoning bubble to blow up in a second.

Hey, the country you defend so fiercely and seemingly are proud of being representative of is now trying to execute humans. Yes, these are humans just like yourself and myself. The difference is that they did something they believed in and turned out that many people died as a consequence. So what?

The human plague of murder and destruction that is so closely associated with islam and which ruthlessly cuts down civilians with the holy imprimatur of religious belief is something you apparently dismiss with a simple “so what”. It must be nice to not ever be bothered by the nagging irritation of simple morality.

If I can invoke a religious belief to justify mass murder for the purpose of achieving power through murder, kidnapping and assassination, then I should not complain when another would-be religious mass murderer murders or assassinates me in order to fill my place. This dynamic operates right down to individuals. If I create a society in which it's okay to murder, then I should not be surprised when I am murdered or my children are murdered and that’s precisely what we see happening in the fear societies that are such a part of the Moslem Middle East.

Hitler took power and decided it was okay to start a world war, and in the end those who absolutely refused to let him dictate their destinies came back at him with even greater power. Obviously, a process of mutual agreement as to leaders and policies is a far more functional and pro-survival method, (Western liberal democracy demonstrates that), and it's taken us a long time to learn it. But now that we have, it is possible for it to grow (and it is growing) because it stands as a clear example of a way to assure as best as is possible, a more secure and healthy life for all concerned. And this is why we react with such revulsion to deviants like calculated mass murderers and those who find divine mandate in the beheading of innocent civilians.

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 13, 2008 - 08:50 PM

elemental wrote:
Remember, what goes around,comes around, sooner or later. Many empires rose and fell...American might well one day go the same way, and that day might be all not that far...

Thank you for that inspirational message of hope.

Remember though, even if the Great Satan™ disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn’t materially affect you and others in the Islamic Middle East. Your lot would still be inextricably linked to the economic malaise, political despotism, moral ineptitude and social chaos that it is now.

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 15, 2008 - 01:02 PM

This will come as a surprise to you but a military court has much the same requirements for standards of proof as a criminal or civil trial.

There are actual... You know... Rules of evidence and discovery. A different process than that found in your preferred sharia system.

This post was edited on: 2008-02-16 at 05:10 AM by: mnopq (Moderator)

Arslan Jumaniyazov

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 15, 2008 - 02:50 PM

It's really hard to debate a six-year old. Therefore, I will post the following info below for those who can understand simple failure of the US justice system vis-a-vis Gitmo.

February 5, 2008
New York Times
Time Runs Out for an Afghan Held by the U.S.
By CARLOTTA GALL and ANDY WORTHINGTON
Editors' Note Appended

KABUL, Afghanistan — Abdul Razzaq Hekmati was regarded here as a war hero, famous for his resistance to the Russian occupation in the 1980s and later for a daring prison break he organized for three opponents of the Taliban government in 1999.

But in 2003, Mr. Hekmati was arrested by American forces in southern Afghanistan when, senior Afghan officials here contend, he was falsely accused by his enemies of being a Taliban commander himself. For the next five years he was held at the American military base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, where he died of cancer on Dec. 30.

The fate of Mr. Hekmati, the first detainee to die of natural causes at Guantánamo, who fruitlessly recounted his story several times to American officials, demonstrates the enduring problems of the tribunals at Guantánamo, say Afghan officials and others who knew him.

Afghan officials, and some Americans, complain that detainees are effectively thwarted from calling witnesses in their defense, and that the Afghan government is never consulted on the detention cases, even when it may be able to help. Mr. Hekmati’s case, officials who knew him said, shows that sometimes the Americans do not seem to know whom they are holding. Meanwhile, detainees wait for years with no resolution to their cases.

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More About Children and Juveniles
February 15, 2008 - 02:57 PM

Omar Khadr: The Youngest Terrorist?

Nov. 18, 2007

CBS--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS) Omar Khadr seems an unlikely poster boy for the war on terror. Khadr is a Canadian citizen, he likes Harry Potter, and he was only 15 years old when he was captured by the U.S. Army in Afghanistan. And that's what makes his case so controversial: his age.

As correspondent Bob Simon reports, Omar Khadr is the only person in modern history to be charged for war crimes he allegedly committed while a minor.

60 Minutes got a rare glimpse into a Guantanamo case -- one of the first that will be prosecuted. Consider this: is Omar Khadr a hardened terrorist -- a bad seed, or an obedient son, led astray by his family?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The U.S. accuses Omar Khadr of murdering an American soldier, conspiracy, spying and more, all done, they say, when he was just 15 years old. Khadr has been detained in Guantanamo Bay for five years, much of it in a maximum security prison, in a cell with no windows, awaiting a military trial. His lawyers say that due to his age when he was taken prisoner, he should have been considered a child soldier and shouldn't be there at all.

As is, the U.S. calls him an unlawful enemy combatant, a euphemism for terrorist. 60 Minutes was not allowed to speak to Omar Khadr. But Dennis Edney, one of his lawyers, has visited him in Guantanamo several times.

"He's been in confinement for five years. Think of that. Think of locking a dog in a cage for five years. That's what’s happened to Omar Khadr," Edney tells Simon.

al-kafir

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 15, 2008 - 05:39 PM

Your frantic cutting and pasting is long on melodrama but short on observable fact. I understand your desire to vilify the Great Satan™ but if you had actually read the article you cut and pasted, you would have the seen such terms as “Afghan officials here contend”, “effectively thwarted”… all coming from that bastion of slanted reporting the New York Times.

Notice we are never graced with any substantive indication of who these “officials” are. What does “effectively thwarted”, mean? “Thwarted” in what way? Who are the “enemies who falsely accused him”?

You really shouldn’t expect anyone to take your hysterical cut and pasting seriously.

As for legality...clearly the Constitution and the Geneva Convention don't apply to such notable Islamic jihad superstars such as Khaled Sheik Muhammed and perhaps Abdul Razzaq Hekmati either.

And let’s face it, Gitmo is a country club in relative terms. I haven’t seen any videos coming out of Gitmo that are the snuff films made so famous by Islamic terrorists who kidnapped hapless individuals and then ceremoniously slit their throats… to the chants of praising a certain deity.

Arslan Jumaniyazov

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 15, 2008 - 06:40 PM

As I have noticed, it was not me but somebody else who started this thread with an article by New York Times with its "slanted reporting" and such observable terms as "one official who had been briefed" or "investigators said," etc. I have also noticed that some people think it is ok to franticly copy/paste "slanted reporting" of New York Times when it suits certain agendas and identify the "observable fact" from that newspaper when it does not.

I certainly don't expect the fans of fair-and-balanced Fox News and antidote-to-liberal-bias National Review to take seriously what New York Times, Amnesty International, International Red Cross, Human Rights Watch, UN Commission for Human Rights, ACLU, and all Americans with conscience have pointed out: failure of justice system at Gitmo. All I expect from them is to consider someone who was been brutally murdered through slow and scientific torture at Gitmo--someone like Abdul Razzaq Hekmati--as "notable Islamic jihad superstars." One cannot expect anything higher from those people.

I have also noticed that believers in law and order and human dignity decided to destroy as much evidence possible about the sadistic torture, barbarism, brutality at Gitmo and supporters of such treatment at Gitmo can boast that, unlike terrorists, the Gitmo officials are smart enough not to show the videos from that concentration camp.

Arslan

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 15, 2008 - 06:48 PM

I have also noticed that believers in law and order and human dignity decided to destroy as much evidence possible about the sadistic torture, barbarism, brutality at Gitmo and supporters of such treatment at Gitmo can boast that, unlike terrorists, the Gitmo officials are smart enough not to show the videos from that concentration camp.

Such melodrama. If it was true, your hand-wringing might be taken seriously.

Here's an older Time Magazine article that exposes the "horrors" of Gitmo.

Anyone beheaded at Gitmo, BTW?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1071284,00.html

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 17, 2008 - 03:45 PM

Anyone beheaded at Gitmo, BTW?

I agree, we haven't heard of any beheadings at Gitmo. We only heard of waterboarding, sexual denigration, scientific torture, keeping thirteen-year-old kids. But these are civilized ways of treating people. Such practices, after all, do not include beheadings and airing the videos of beheadings.

Arslan

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 19, 2008 - 12:01 PM

Kafir - Gitmo is a travesty of justice - it needs to be torn down.

Arslan - the idea that these 6 guys do not deserve to be punished is silly - they deserve to be punished - some of them are litterally arch terrorists.

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Arslan Jumaniyazov

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Re: U.S. Seeking Execution for 6 in Sept. 11 Case
February 19, 2008 - 12:05 PM

Who said those six guys do not deserve to be punished?

Arslan