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Makita
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Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 28, 2003 - 10:58 AM
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Thousands of Iraqis are still without power, water, food and
emergency health care. Read a report here.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/FLO305A.html
A group of Iraqi Citizens have filed a US War Crime lawsuit in Belgium; Help if you can.
http://stopusa.be
"An eye for an eye would leave the whole world blind" - Gandhi
Evil wins when the few good men do nothing! - Edmund Burke
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Mike Cartier
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War Crimes
May 29, 2003 - 07:01 AM
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The United States did not commit war crimes in Iraq. This can be proven by the thousands of reporters from around the world that were observing our troops actions throughout the entire war.
I visited the site that Mita suggested, which is very clearly one sided. An example is the photograph of a soldier screening the corner of a street. An Iraqi woman was standing in front of him. The website attemts to portray it as if the soldier was about to shoot the woman. In fact, as explained by the photagrapher, the soldier had turned the corner, run into the woman, and told her to leave the area because of the combat.
I am dissapointed to see an American youth, who has not studied history enough to know, that what went on in Iraq, did not involve war crimes.
Michael Cartier
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Lewis Best
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 29, 2003 - 07:09 AM
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The US didn't committ any "war crime" under UN Resolutions. But they did leave them for dead. Just like Afghanistan
Peace
Besty
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Ha Thi Lan Anh
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 30, 2003 - 01:29 AM
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Global Nomads Group
Bringing the World Into the Classroom, Live
You're invited to witness the follow-up of Project Voice - a GNG program connecting American and Iraqi youth via videoconference - on Thursday, June 5th, 2003.
This event follows the first Project Voice program we conducted on March 3rd, during which Iraqi and US teenagers united to discuss their individual cultures, their aspirations for the future, and their views on a looming war.
Project Voice: After the War will re-unite the same participants for 90 minutes in a post-war era, and will shed a light on their renewed perceptions of each other and on their present state of mind.
To find out more, check out our newly launched Project Voice website: http://www.gng.org/projectvoice/
You'll find out how you or your school can sign up to watch the event live on the day of the broadcast, and will be able to keep track of the GNG Baghdad Team's progress (see diary updates here: http://www.gng.org/projectvoice/diary.html)
We hope to see you there!
The GNG Team
-------------------
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Mike
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 30, 2003 - 09:04 AM
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I refute Cartier's claims that there were no war crimes in Iraq.
Firstly, every civilian killed, every underage soldier left to die, and every conscript murdered by U.S forces is a crime. There is no argument. No-one in this world deserves to die, the only thing deserving for Iraq is a true and fair justice for all people, guilty or not.
"All war's a crime."
Inevitably, we will see claims of cruelty and heavy-handedness towards the Iraqi people. At first, such claims will be unsubstantiated, but as time passes and more claims are voiced, the world will realise - much as they have towards the Palestinian people - that the greatest crime of all is the inhibition of freedom.
No side is free of wrongdoing in this conflict. But what one can do is call for war to stop being a means to an end, and engage in solving tommorow's problem non-violently and in the spirit of togetherness.
In reply to the question of knowing your history, which country is reknowned for it's indifference and incapacity to avert conflict?
Evidently, the answer is simple. Acknowledging it however, is up to you.
- - -
Pred.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 01:34 AM
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hey guys - just to drop my two cents in here.
To say "war is a crime" (which is a truism) and use that as your basic premise for accusing the US of War crimes is essentially an unfair arguement.
The term "War crime" when taken from that angle is just rediculous since you have two sides trying to kill eachother - everything that happens by both the Iraqi and american armies is criminal.
- But that is not what "war crime" refers to - what it refers to is the doubious attempt to construct international laws governing the rules of combat - The US did not break many of those - they took prisoners whenever possible - treated them by the letter of the Geneva convention ect.
And why not - the US could afford to win this fight without'hitting below the belt' so to speak - and they had a vested interest in visibly playing by the rules - because the whole world was watching. They deployed all those reporters for the express purpose of validating the legality of their actions.
In war this enevitably get out of control and I am certain that some Army boys took the law in their own hands ect. but not on any significant scale - it was a pretty clean fight.
What I am dissappointed in now is that they still have not resupplied the Iraqi's with services basic to survival - running water ect. This is not happenening fast enough.
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asdf
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 05:43 AM
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Lanh Anh, nice posts. Another pretty solid news source, in my opinion, is the UK's Guardian www.guardian.co.uk. Does anyone have that open letter actor Sean Penn published recently in the NY Times? I can't seem to find it on the web.
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Mike Cartier
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News Sources
May 31, 2003 - 09:27 AM
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War is tragic and should not be entered into lightly. There are Geneva Convention rules which govern wartime behavior, and the United States has observed all of them during the War in Iraq. During times of war there will inevitably be some civillian casualities. When you are fighting against a government that kidnaps children and uses them as soldiers, and encourages their military to dress as civillians; then the distinction between civillians and military personnel becomes blurred. Saddam delibertly endangered his people by hiding the military amongst civillians, in hospitals, schools, and religious sites; thereby showing his total disrespect for his people and those institutions within his own country. It is Saddams fault that there were as many casualities as there were in Iraq.
Also, remember that there are 2 sides to every story. Take a look at these webites:
http://www.foxnews.com/
http://abcnews.go.com/
http://www.msnbc.com/news/default.asp?0ct=-34o
http://www.nytimes.com/
http://online.wsj.com/public/us
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
http://www.defenselink.mil/
http://www.military.com/Page/0,12170,1-OO-0,00.htm
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Mike
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 09:51 AM
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Here it is.
http://www.takingitglobal.org/discuss/showthread.php?threadid=1163#post5131
will post more later.
- - -
Pred.
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Ha Thi Lan Anh
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 10:19 AM
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geeze i read the Guardian everyday and totally forgot to add it in. Thanks Jacob.
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Ha Thi Lan Anh
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by luke
What I am dissappointed in now is that they still have not resupplied the Iraqi's with services basic to survival - running water ect. This is not happenening fast enough.
If US let UN and other countries take part in this clean up mission then things will move much faster because UN has much experience and professional humanitarian and aid troops ( UNDP, UNICEF etc) whereas American soldiers are facing a lot of hostile reactions from Iraqi citizens and being too stressed by the fear of the return of suicide bombers.(9 soldiers were recently shot i heard, 2 dead).
Im wondering how they can help others while they themselves are in desparate need for help.
I also think the aiding and rebuiling Iraq process is moving desparately slow because US is more concerned about *building a democracy government in Iraqi* and protecting their supreme their care taker role than aiding the starving,injured and unemployed people.US troops even occupy the Sadam castles while letting the museums of Iraq being stolen stuff that are both material and spiritual important to Iraqi citizens.
Apart from that do you think there are other reasons that keep this process so frustratingly slow?
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Ha Thi Lan Anh
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 11:10 AM
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First, i am no anti American This is just a little discussion for better understanding.
Originally posted by luke
The US did not break many of those -
So that means they DID and just not many. Question is how *many* of those can one break before becoming a war crime?
And if every of nations in this world would do *some but not many* whenever conflict arise then how much more messy the world would be ?
Originally posted by luke
They deployed all those reporters for the express purpose of validating the legality of their actions.
If they have something to explain about their actions, they already pay this guy Ariel Fleischer to do the job.The reporters are not hired to be government's spokeperson.They are news diliver and they are expected to tell the truth and different sides of the story,which doesnt mean they dont have the right to express their personal views.
Originally posted by luke
In war this enevitably get out of control and I am certain that some Army boys took the law in their own hands ect. but not on any significant scale - it was a pretty clean fight.
Im sorry but reality is actions that they do, the world doesnt look at them as little faults of some American boys. It is the same with soldiers of all nations as well as the citizen. Once you wear a nationality of a country, you are automatically put on the privilege and responsibility on behalf of that country no matter you recognize it or not.And without recognizing that,you can create stereotype of your country in the eyes of the world. If those American boys dont recognize that, then shouldnt have joined the US army and US cant be angry if there is such thing called * Anti-American* appearing cuz they should have educated their boys better about the responsibility of *being American*.
About not a significant scale, im not sure if the scale they we are informed are 1% or 5 % or 20 & or 99,8% of the real scale that actually happen.And hence, the mystery is just the degree of dirtiness.
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Ha Thi Lan Anh
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Re: War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 11:10 AM
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it seems you choose to read only these American media :
http://www.foxnews.com/
http://abcnews.go.com/
http://www.msnbc.com/news/default.asp?0ct=-34o
http://www.nytimes.com/
http://online.wsj.com/public/us
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
http://www.defenselink.mil/
http://www.military.com/Page/0,12170,1-OO-0,00.htm
and so you said
Originally posted by Cartier2028
The United States did not commit war crimes in Iraq. This can be proven by the thousands of reporters from around the world that were observing our troops actions throughout the entire war.
so i posted these
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2951888.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2943246.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertai...dio/2931689.stm
http://www.aljazeera.net/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/2889255.stm
http://www.distanceeddesign.com/rac...ng-pvtlynch.htm
www.indymedia.org
just to remind that
Originally posted by Cartier2028
[Also, remember that there are 2 sides to every story.
Michael Cartier
salam
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asdf
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 11:46 AM
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Thanks Pred, but it was the more recent letter I was curious about. It was published in the New York times this past week but all I've been able to read of it is excerpts from other paper's coverage.
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Lewis Best
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Re: Iraq after WAR and US War Crimes
May 31, 2003 - 11:59 AM
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Human Rights abuse? Yes. The right to Life is always abused in War. yet the UN still support certain wars?? What type of world is this??
Besty
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