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gzusbmine
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The President of Iran Q&A
September 25, 2007 - 11:23 PM
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I am just interested in everyone's reaction to the answers given by the Iran President Ahmadinejad.
I thought the president of the university's remarks were rude and unnecessary especially when he was an invited guest. You don't invite someone into your home and insult them in front of everyone. He really made us Americans look bad.
Some of President Ahmadinejad remarks were misconstrued and some maybe offensive, but it was wonderful to here another person's view of the palenstine and middle eastern situations rather than our controlled media's view.
America is a little self-righteous thinking that they have some perfect view of the world and all its troubles when often it is very limited and biased with unsupporting facts or even lies.
What do you think about what the President of Iran said and how he was treated? You can find an unedited and uninterrupted version at youtube.com. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuLfO3GlWcc&mode=related&search=
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 03:09 AM
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I don't think Bollinger should have called him a dictator - because Ahmadinejad is not dictator. If anyone in Iran had that power it would be the Supreme Ruler for Life - the Ayatollah.
Aside from that - "some" of Ahmadinejad's remarks were "maybe" offensive - what are you kidding?
Bollinger rightly challenged him on intellectual honesty. Ahmadinejad doesn't have any.
He has a political agenda and will say anything to further the agenda - the truth is not relevant.
For instance when he denied that there were any gays in Iran - besides being obvious nonsense - it
shows he lacks the courage of his convictions.
If he believes, as I think he does, that homosexuality is morally and ethically wrong, and that gay people should be punished -
as they ARE in Iran, tortured and hung -
then he should say that homosexuality is wrong and should be punished.
instead he was completely dishonest - denied there were any gays -because he didn't want to fess up to his own beliefs.
He soft peddled his Holocaust denial suggesting that it should be studied like Physics -
How can you do experiments on history??
But Bollinger was right to tell him that denying the most documented tragedy in human history makes him look rediculous -
he does look like a fool when he denies the Holocaust - and even this denial is not for intellectually honest reasons.
He wants to undermine Israel and he thinks deminishing the Holocaust will accomplish this - he thinks its clever.
It is not an issue of thinking America is perfect. The issue is the truth -
The truth is that women in Iran are oppressed. The truth is that they hang homosexuals. That Ahmadinejad personally sponsored a Contest on cartoons mocking the Holocaust.
He had a Holocaust conference where the Grand Wizard of the KKK was the keynote speaker.
There is nothing wonderful about what he has to say. - he is a figure that must be exposed for the intellectually dishonest, demagogue that he is.
By the way if Bush was the one on stage I think he should be confronted for his dishonesty as well.
We should be communicating with rational Iranians - Ahmadinejad is not the god of Iran - he is in a vulnerable position and disliked in his own country.
This post was edited on: 2007-09-26 at 03:59 AM by: Luke Lieberman
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 07:11 AM
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He shouldnt have been insulted like that ...
Debating and asking questions is fine ...
but he shouldnt have been insulted like that.
Just imagine Bush being invited to Tehran and then being insulted.
I am sure the Western Media wouldnt sit quietly at that !
This post was edited on: 2007-09-26 at 07:12 AM by: Anu maheshwari
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Iranian response
September 26, 2007 - 08:47 AM
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Fars News Agency
http://www.farsnews.com/English/newstext.php?nn=8606300370
Iranian University Chancellors Ask Bollinger 10 Questions
TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- Seven chancellors and presidents of Iranian universities and research centers, in a letter addressed to their counterpart in the US Colombia University, denounced Lee Bollinger's insulting words against the Iranian nation and president and invited him to provide responses for 10 questions of the Iranian academicians and intellectuals.
The following is the full text of the letter.
Mr. Lee Bollinger
Columbia University President
We, the professors and heads of universities and research institutions in Tehran , hereby announce our displeasure and protest at your impolite remarks prior to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent speech at Columbia University.
We would like to inform you that President Ahmadinejad was elected directly by the Iranian people through an enthusiastic two-round poll in which almost all of the country's political parties and groups participated. To assess the quality and nature of these elections you may refer to US news reports on the poll dated June 2005.
Your insult, in a scholarly atmosphere, to the president of a country with a population of 72 million and a recorded history of 7,000 years of civilization and culture is deeply shameful.
Your comments, filled with hate and disgust, may well have been influenced by extreme pressure from the media, but it is regrettable that media policy-makers can determine the stance a university president adopts in his speech.
Your remarks about our country included unsubstantiated accusations that were the product of guesswork as well as media propaganda. Some of your claims result from misunderstandings that can be clarified through dialogue and further research.
During his speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad answered a number of your questions and those of students. We are prepared to answer any remaining questions in a scientific, open and direct debate.
You asked the president approximately ten questions. Allow us to ask you ten of our own questions in the hope that your response will help clear the atmosphere of misunderstanding and distrust between our two countries and reveal the truth.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Continued...
September 26, 2007 - 08:48 AM
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1- Why did the US media put you under so much pressure to prevent Mr. Ahmadinejad from delivering his speech at Columbia University? And why have American TV networks been broadcasting hours of news reports insulting our president while refusing to allow him the opportunity to respond? Is this not against the principle of freedom of speech?
2- Why, in 1953, did the US administration overthrow the Iran's national government under Dr Mohammad Mosaddegh and go on to support the Shah's dictatorship?
3- Why did the US support the blood-thirsty dictator Saddam Hussein during the 1980-88 Iraqi-imposed war on Iran, considering his reckless use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers defending their land and even against his own people?
4- Why is the US putting pressure on the government elected by the majority of Palestinians in Gaza instead of officially recognizing it? And why does it oppose Iran 's proposal to resolve the 60-year-old Palestinian issue through a general referendum?
5- Why has the US military failed to find Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden even with all its advanced equipment? How do you justify the old friendship between the Bush and Bin Laden families and their cooperation on oil deals? How can you justify the Bush administration's efforts to disrupt investigations concerning the September 11 attacks?
6- Why does the US administration support the Mujahedin Khalq Organization (MKO) despite the fact that the group has officially and openly accepted the responsibility for numerous deadly bombings and massacres in Iran and Iraq? Why does the US refuse to allow Iran 's current government to act against the MKO's main base in Iraq?
7- Was the US invasion of Iraq based on international consensus and did international institutions support it? What was the real purpose behind the invasion which has claimed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives? Where are the weapons of mass destruction that the US claimed were being stockpiled in Iraq?
8- Why do America's closest allies in the Middle East come from extremely undemocratic governments with absolutist monarchical regimes?
9- Why did the US oppose the plan for a Middle East free of unconventional weapons in the recent session of the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors despite the fact the move won the support of all members other than Israel?
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Continued ...
September 26, 2007 - 08:48 AM
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10- Why is the US displeased with Iran's agreement with the IAEA and why does it openly oppose any progress in talks between Iran and the agency to resolve the nuclear issue under international law?
Finally, we would like to express our readiness to invite you and other scientific delegations to our country. A trip to Iran would allow you and your colleagues to speak directly with Iranians from all walks of life including intellectuals and university scholars. You could then assess the realities of Iranian society without media censorship before making judgments about the Iranian nation and government.
You can be assured that Iranians are very polite and hospitable toward their guests.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 12:11 PM
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If Bush went to Tehran - people would not be polite - he would be lucky to survive.
it is interesting that neither of you are interested in the substance of what was said -
because what Ahmadinejad says in usually indefensible you focus on Bollingers introduction -
It reminds me of the way Bush and the Republicans focus on Moveon.org advertisement on Patreus as a way to avoid discussing the substance of an issue.
was is really relevant - is that Bollinger spoke the truth - but you would rather focus on the manner in which he delivered his truthful words.
just like Bush would rather talk about Moveon being "rude" rather then the substance of their position on the war.
oh - and to those professors Arslan - you can tell them that what is shameful is that this country of 72 million (but no gays ; - ) with all its deep tradition - ever elected a bigot like Ahmadinejad in the first place.
Politicians did not determine what Bollinger said - a focus on intellectual honesty did - a truly academic concern.
How could an Ivy League institution have Holocaust denier on stage an NOT challenge them on their intellectual honesty?
This post was edited on: 2007-09-26 at 12:14 PM by: Luke Lieberman
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 12:12 PM
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1 - because Ahmadinejad is a bigot, and Holocaust deniers are not welcome at Ivy League universities - in the same way we don't invite debates on if the world is flat.
2 - Bollinger and Columbia are not responsible for the Shah. Ahmadinejad is responsible for the policies of his government and his own actions.
3 - same answer
4 - Because Hamas continued to keep one foot in terrorism and refused to abide by the agreements under which the foreign aid was promised - so that aid was withdrawn. If Bin Laden was elected to a country tomorrow it would not make him legitimate, especially if he refused to renounce his practices and act like a legitimate politican.
the refferendum Ahmadinejad proposed would only include Palestinians and Israelis would not be given a vote in their own future. It also forgets the simple fact that Israel is a country and that it exists - the Palestinians can't simply "decide" that it shouldn't.
5 - How would Bollinger know the answer to this question? How is he responsible?
if Bush goes to a debate at Tehran U you are welcome to ask him.
6 - I believe that this was a reaction to Iran's support of Hezbullah - but again Bollinger is not an American official -
if Bush debates at Tehran U you can ask him.
7 - again you seem to mistake Bollinger for Bush
8 - America's closest ally in the Middle-east is Israel and it is a democracy.
9 - see 8
10 - because it is another tactic to stall for time while they continue enriching Uranium in defiance of the Security Council.
but basically - why ask Bollinger these questions? he is not the President of the US - he bears no responsibility for any of it.
I doubt he even voted for Bush.
In contrast Bollingers challenges to Ahmadinejad were perfectly appropriate because they were asked of someone personally responsible for the policies of his own government
and obviously the challenges on things like Holocaust denial were appropriate because they were made directly to the person doing the denials.
Oh, as for being "polite" Arslan - American Academics in Iran expressing their opinions have lately been ARRESTED and held in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT.
polite indeed... sometimes Arslan, I question your intellectual honesty.
This post was edited on: 2007-09-26 at 12:25 PM by: Luke Lieberman
This post was edited on: 2007-09-26 at 12:29 PM by: Luke Lieberman
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 04:15 PM
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luke wrote:
If Bush went to Tehran - people would not be polite - he would be lucky to survive.
Again an emotional response ...Iranians would not stoop to that....But then Bush has done enough to bring that wrath upon him ....Ahmedinejad on the other hand ... hasnt got such an illustrated résumé....
luke wrote:
it is interesting that neither of you are interested in the substance of what was said -
because what Ahmadinejad says in usually indefensible you focus on Bollingers introduction -
we are not defending Ahmedinejad.... he has a right to his opinion and to express it peacefully...and moreover he was open to a debate on the issues .....He was ready to listen and not just air his own views....
Bollinger's actions were uncalled for...
we are just calling a "spade a spade"...
Why are you twisting our statements ?
luke wrote:
was is really relevant - is that Bollinger spoke the truth - but you would rather focus on the manner in which he delivered his truthful words.
since when did calling an elected representative ---" "a petty and cruel dictator " became 'truthful words'?
I dont know how such acts are perceived in USA...but in this corner of the world ... it is not very much appreciated ...
First it was just the American govt which was despised but now the intelligentsia is also on the same path ....
All this only makes Ahmedinejad more popular !
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Jason Foster
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 04:50 PM
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Mates,
When a head of state denies the Holocaust and publicly states that Israel be wiped off the map, they don't derserve respect, they deserve to be ridiculed for being a racist, which is what the president of iran is...he's no different that Hilter, if he had the capability, that bloke would kill as many jews as he could.
The human rights abuses going on in Iran is another reason why this man should not be shown any respect, he really is a cruel and petty dictator.
Keep third world rogue heads of state where they belong, in third world rogue states such as Iran, the western world is too good for them.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 04:52 PM
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Luke,
Didn't I make it clear in the thread about Iranian movie sympathetic to Jews that I am with Iranian reformers?
I can debate with you those questions but that was not my intent. I posted a response by Iranian professors. I thought that was relevant to this thread.
It looks like you are answering me and asking me questions. Well, I don't take responsibility for questions raised by Iranian professors just like, as you say, Columbdia does not bear responsibility for Bush's acts.
Arslan
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 07:25 PM
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"he was open to a debate on the issues "
He enjoyed a platform - he did not debate the issues - he dodged, weaved and denied.
saying he is open to debate implies he will actually address the substance of the issues at hand.
"He was ready to listen and not just air his own views"
how do you know this? He has an agenda - period. If he wanted to 'listen' about the Holocaust there are many many many people who he could listen to.
it is among the most documented events in human history and he acts as though there is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion.
so obviously he is not 'listening' he has a deeply ingrained ideology.
"Why are you twisting our statements ?"
I am simply pointing out that both of you were only concerned with Bollingers introduction and not the substance of what Ahmadinejad said or stands for.
Ahmadinejad IS offensive in his very person.
"since when did calling an elected representative ---" "a petty and cruel dictator " became 'truthful words'?"
And I called Bollinger on that misstep at the beginning of the thread.
As for what was truthful - I quote -
"We at this university have not been shy to protest the challenge -- and challenge the failures of our own government to live by our values, and we won't be shy about criticizing yours."
"First, on the brutal crackdown on scholars, journalists and human rights advocates. Over the past two weeks, your government has released Dr. Haleh Esfandiari and Parnaz Azima and just two days ago, Kian Tajbakhsh, a graduate of Columbia with a PhD in Urban Planning. While our community is relieved to learn of his release on bail, Dr. Tajbakhsh remains in Tehran under house arrest, and he still does not know whether he will be charged with a crime or allowed to leave the country."
"The arrest and imprisonment of these Iranian Americans for no good reason is not only unjustified, it runs completely counter to the very values that allow today's speaker to even appear on this campus, but at least they are alive."
"Iran leads the world in executing minors."
"Iran hanged up 30 people this past July and August during a widely reported suppression of efforts to establish a more democratic society. Many of these executions were carried out in public view"
This post was edited on: 2007-09-26 at 07:27 PM by: Luke Lieberman
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 07:25 PM
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and my personal favorite -
"In a December 2005 state television broadcast, you described the Holocaust as "a fabricated legend." One year later, you held a two-day conference of Holocaust deniers. For the illiterate and ignorant, this is dangerous propaganda.
When you have come to a place like this, this makes you, quite simply, ridiculous. You are either brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated."
That Anu - is the TRUTH.
"your absurd comments about the debate over the Holocaust both defy historical truth and make all of us who continue to fear humanity's capacity for evil shudder at this closure of memory, which is always virtue's first line of defense. Will you cease this outrage?"
"The proxy war against the United States troops in Iraq -- in a briefing before the National Press Club earlier this month, General David Petraeus reported that arms supplies from Iran, including 240- millimeter rockets and explosively formed projectiles, are contributing to, quote, "a sophistication of attacks that would by no means be possible without Iranian support.""
"Why does your country continue to refuse to adhere to international standards for nuclear weapons verification, in defiance of agreements that you have made with the U.N. nuclear agency? And why have you chosen to make the people of your country vulnerable to the effects of international economic sanctions, and threaten to engulf the world in nuclear annihilation?"
"I close with this comment frankly and in all candor, Mr. President. I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions. But your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us. I do expect you to exhibit the fanatical mindset that characterizes so much of what you say and do"
again - the truth. To borrow your phrasing - Bollinger called a spade a spade.
The intelligentsia should be concerned with intellectual honesty and nothing more. uneducated people who only read a few words of Bollingers remarks will of course think him wrong.
"It looks like you are answering me and asking me questions." - Arslan
true enough.
This post was edited on: 2007-09-26 at 07:32 PM by: Luke Lieberman
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gzusbmine
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 11:18 PM
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I have no previous knowledge of the president of Iran and his previous views, so all my ideas are current to the speech.
The problem is that until 60 years ago, that land was palestine. The state of Israel has committed many human rights atrocities against the Palestinian people, and at least, the president of Iran recognizes that on a diplomatic level (as much as he might like) the people in the state of Israel are there to stay. However, I agree that the rights of the palestinian people should be protected and defended, and I believe that is the President of Iran's main goal. I don't recall his speech saying he wants to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. His approach seemed to be one of diplomacy. Israel seems far from diplomacy. We feel bad for destroying the Native American population of America, but we condone Israel's actions against palestinians. Seems hypocritical.
As far as homosexuals, people of different societies see certain things as crimes due to their society and culture. It is hard to look down on anothers country law system when you don't take into account their culture and society. I am not personally in to persecuting anyone no matter your personal choices, but am I to criticize someone's religious belief. I think his comment on "there are no gays in Iran" was more of his polite way of avoiding a topic he realizes might be culturally difficult to explain.
i
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gzusbmine
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Re: The President of Iran Q&A
September 26, 2007 - 11:18 PM
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don't remember him saying that the holocaust didn't happen. His main point was what did it have to do with kicking the palestinian people out of their land and homes and stripping them of their rights. I don't care if you have the UN backing you. Wrong is wrong. He also said that his main view on the Holocaust is that it should continue to be researched not necessarily to prove or disprove its existence.
I am curious about how to gain unbiased research about their nuclear program.
I still think that the President of Iran was charming and eloquent. I would love to pick at his brian even if he has some crazy ideas.
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