« 回到论坛
版主：
AminaYasmine, Liamjod, mnopq
 作者 |
 发布
|
 |
|
prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
邮件 24
帖子等级
爱说话的
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 50
国家：Japan
Province/State: Hokkaido
城市: Sapporo
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
August 6, 2007 - 09:42 PM
|
|
souptown wrote:
...you surely have no rights to talk about the human rights in China...i must stress that you have no rights to interfere our internal affairs...
Really, Souptown, you are beginning to sound like a government propagandist. Here at TIG we discuss issues openly, without fearing government intimidation like in the PRC.
I invite you to read YESTERDAY'S Amnesty International report "China: Olympics countdown - human rights abuses risk blighting Olympics legacy"
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170372007?open&of=ENG-CHN
or if your government has blocked it, I will give you the highlights:
Detention without trial
--Increased use of detention without trial to "clean up" Beijing ahead of the games, including "Enforced Drug Rehabilitation" and the extension of categories of petty crime for which "Re-education through Labour" is applied;
Human rights activists
--Intensification of abuse against human rights activists in other parts of China, including the death of award-winning housing rights activist Chen Xiaoming in Shanghai on 1 July, shortly after his release from prison on medical parole; reports indicate that he was tortured in detention;
--The targeting of lawyers and legal advisors working on behalf of victims of human rights violations, including the reported beating of imprisoned blind legal advisor Chen Guangcheng by fellow inmates on the orders of prison guards on 16 June. Chen was imprisoned in Shandong province after he tried to bring local authorities to book for allegedly forcing local women to undergo forced abortions and sterilization in pursuit of birth quotas;
--The targeting of activists who try to draw attention to those evicted from their homes as a result of Olympics-related construction projects, including the ongoing imprisonment of Ye Guozhu, who was reportedly beaten with electro-shock batons at the end of last year;
souptown wrote:
Taiwan is our own territory,whatever we do to Taiwan is none of your business...in the Asian basketball keague match three days ago,Japan played the national anthem of the Republic of China to the Chinese...
this knid of behavious of Japan is strongly against the Olympic spirit,isn't it? i suggest that we should do more rather than just demonstrating at Japanese embasisies.
Oh, so sensitive! The Taiwan anthem was played at TAIWAN's games, not the PRC's. Oh, by the way, Taiwan placed 6th at the Asian Championships; the PRC, 10th. What happened, huh? Your last sentence suggests you are advocating violence against Japan. That sure is some "Olympic spirit" you got there.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Jack
连接： Dec 29, 2006
邮件 1
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 20
国家：United States
Province/State: Massachusetts
城市: Hyannis
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
August 7, 2007 - 01:38 AM
|
|
Souptown wrote:
"...you surely have no rights to talk about the human rights in China..."
"...first,i must stress that you have no rights to interfere our internal affairs. Taiwan is our own territory,whatever we do to Taiwan is none of your business..."
These opinions truly concern me. Human rights is a topic that everyone has the right to know about, as we are all global citizens, which seems to be one of the reasons this site has been created; to promote that global citizenship. If you are to propose that human rights violations should be kept secret to those not involved, I ask you: If a human rights violation were to be committed against you or someone you love, wouldn't you want the world to know, and have the perpetrators be made to take responsibility for their actions?
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Luke Lieberman
连接： Feb 13, 2003
邮件 156
帖子等级
喋喋不休
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 30
国家：United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
August 8, 2007 - 02:35 AM
|
|
Prieten and Jack basically covered it.
It is absurd to say that no one from America (or Japan) is allowed to say anything about China's rights abuses because Iraq -
is the same as saying that no one in China can comment on the situation in Iraq - because of Chinas rights abuses.
this presumption of moral superiority you give Chinese - and the presumption of moral inferiority you assign to Americans -
is in short a joke.
As for "first,i must stress that you have no rights to interfere our internal affairs,Taiwan is our own territory,whatever we do to Taiwan is none of your business,"
ummm... after what happened in Tibet I think the Taiwanese are wise to be wary of China. Obviously they do not consider themselves part of China - so your assertians that they are seem to be more opinion then fact.
Basically you sound like you work for the Chinese government.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Shawn S.
连接： Jul 9, 2007
邮件 1
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 23
国家：Canada
Province/State: British Columbia
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
August 8, 2007 - 10:40 AM
|
|
Schmo, I invite you to look at the last Olympic games in Greece:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0901/p07s01-woeu.html
Keep in mind, despite the glitzy urban skylines, China is still a poor country in which the majority are living in the countryside, on farms. I can think of many better ways to spend the money to help them.
Hmmm, I don't mean to discredit the source but it's three years old. I'd be curious as to what the actual numbers are (since the article ranges from a 1.5+ billion dollar price tag to a 12 million dollar price tag).
In any case that aside, you need to understand that the money doesn't exist if the olympics don't go there. It's not as if China has a room full of money and they can either spend it on the poor, or spend it on the olympics. Most of that money does not exist.
Also, because China is a poor country I think it's even better that the olympics reach them. First of all, imagine the revenue the country will make when you compare its internal economy to the rest of the [rich] world. They would LOVE to get some of that money.
Second, when you host the olympics, the whole world is watching you. What better way to A) show off how cleaned up your country has become (which you can see in any recent news) and B) That there are some people that need help. What better way for charities and foundations to collect money by using the olympics as advertisement/propaganda. In the long term all I see is a win-win situation
Schmo, I invite you to read this .pdf file from the Centre on Housing Rights and Evictions, page 4.
http://www.cohre.org/store/attachments/DignityintheRubble.pdf
Link doesn't work for me.
But the PRC government will probably round up dissidents and any wayward Chinese journalists, sending them to prison or putting them under house arrest, to make sure the world doesn't see or hear the truth.
I actually know quite a bit about this area and I think that's very pessimistic and negative of you to say. You really think that will fly during the olympics? These aren't just any olympics either prieteen, they are in China! A country who's been through a lot and is on the brink of entering a new category on the world stage. Opression woin't last forever and the olympics, in my opinion, will just speed up the process.
This post was edited on: 2007-08-08 at 10:45 AM by: Shawn S.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Shawn S.
连接： Jul 9, 2007
邮件 1
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 23
国家：Canada
Province/State: British Columbia
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
August 8, 2007 - 10:48 AM
|
|
Hmmm, nothing wrong with a little patriotism, I guess, but we only need to remember the nationalistic orgy of Adolf Hitler's 1936 Olympics and the uses to which Hitler put that nationalistic fervor. I suppose you would say that was Hitler just showcasing Germany's economic potential and progress, right?
The reason why the olympics were held in Germand that year, I believe, is the same reason why the olympics are being held in China, and the same reason why Germany hosted the World Cup last year, too. I don't think it's fair of you to assume that because of what happened after the Germany olympics in 1936, that a similar thing will happen in China.
To answer your question directly, yes I do believe Hitler wanted to showcase Germany's potential and progress during the olympics. I mean every country will do that. China will do it a lot too, and again, I see no problem with them having national pride. Just think of whether you'd like your country to br afraid of showing its pride, or not.
Overreaction on my part? Maybe, I certainly hope the benefits of the Olympics will outweigh the negatives.
I believe so. And one of the main reasons why I say that is because the world markets are delving very deep into China right now. There are so many foreign investors that it would be very damaging to China to have all those people pull their money out of the country. It just wouldn't make any sense for them to do that.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
连接： May 13, 2004
邮件 117
帖子等级
喋喋不休
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 29
国家：Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
August 8, 2007 - 07:38 PM
|
|
I have no desire whatsoever to defend China's pursuit of commercial interests at the expense of blood or its domestic violation of human rights. But the idea of boycotting the Olympic Games is not a wise one, in my opinion. That is not going to achieve anything but more resentment and power to the far nationalist right in PRC. Remember the dictatorship of South Korea. It began to wane in the eighties and it finally fell partly thanks to their organization of the Olympic Games. In the same way, it is going to help the Chinese. Whether we think it is enough or not, but China certainly tries to make some steps in the right direction in order to organize the Games. I also believe that the positives outweigh the negatives.
Arslan
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
邮件 24
帖子等级
爱说话的
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 50
国家：Japan
Province/State: Hokkaido
城市: Sapporo
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
August 8, 2007 - 10:19 PM
|
|
Shmo wrote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0901/p07s01-woeu.html
Hmmm, I don't mean to discredit the source but it's three years old. I'd be curious as to what the actual numbers are (since the article ranges from a 1.5+ billion dollar price tag to a 12 million dollar price tag).
Schmo, you really should read the article more carefully. It says the total cost is from $9 to $12 billion. The $1.5 billion cost was for security alone (thanks to terrorism). I agree with you, it would be interesting to know if the "Barcelona Effect" mentioned in the article has taken place in the four years since the Greece Olympics. Any Greek TIG people out there?
Shmo wrote:
In any case that aside, you need to understand that the money doesn't exist if the olympics don't go there. It's not as if China has a room full of money and they can either spend it on the poor, or spend it on the olympics. Most of that money does not exist.
Yes, Schmo, in fact, the PRC does have a room full of money, $1.3 trillion to be exact. Those are the foreign currency reserves they are sitting on right now.
http://www.cohre.org/store/attachments/DignityintheRubble.pdf is a .pdf file, Schmo. Do you have the Adobe Document reader software on your computer?
Shmo wrote:
But the PRC government will probably round up dissidents and any wayward Chinese journalists, sending them to prison or putting them under house arrest, to make sure the world doesn't see or hear the truth.
I actually know quite a bit about this area and I think that's very pessimistic and negative of you to say...Opression woin't last forever and the olympics, in my opinion, will just speed up the process.
Schmo, do you know Amnesty International? Don't you think they are perhaps in a better position to judge the human rights situation in the PRC than you are? I invite you to read (really this time) the link below which I put in my last post for a full discussion of whether the Chinese are cleaning up their act, or just cleaning up the opposition, before the Olympics.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170372007?open&of=ENG-CHN
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
souptown
连接： Aug 2, 2007
邮件
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 19
国家：China
Province/State: Hubei
城市: Wuhan
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
September 3, 2007 - 09:46 AM
|
|
wow,prieten,how powerful you are when you quote out of my context to suit your ridiculous opinion...
i really should say that it is every Chinese' responsibilty to annouce our thoughts here and speak for our country,especially for the new generation here in China like me and my classmates...if you think i am a what kind of so-called government propagandist,see that what you are wrong,if you mean that when your fellow citizan speak for your country to the foreigners are the goverment propagandist,you are pathetic...i just can say that you know nothing about the present China,or the teenages here..
and,i mean that if someone could not do something well themselves,they have no rights to talk about others,this opinion is absolutely correct,if your dear country cannot treat people equally and fairly,you surely have no rights to talk about any human rights in China.
what do you mean by that silly joke,that is a joke of yourself,luke.everything have a certain association,something sometimes represent something...surely it is.
and,it is my last time to post any comments about this ridiculous topic,
it is of no use to urgue any more with you...
fact is fact,truth is truth,you will see it.
This post was edited on: 2007-09-03 at 09:47 AM by: souptown
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Luke Lieberman
连接： Feb 13, 2003
邮件 156
帖子等级
喋喋不休
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 30
国家：United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
September 3, 2007 - 04:03 PM
|
|
"if you think i am a what kind of so-called government propagandist,see that what you are wrong,if you mean that when your fellow citizan speak for your country to the foreigners are the goverment propagandist,"
Souptown - there are lots of people here who stick up for their countries - there is nothing wrong with this -
but YOU are just parroting the Chinese government line with a nationalistic ferver that is almost comical.
"if your dear country cannot treat people equally and fairly,you surely have no rights to talk about any human rights in China."
are you kidding with this nonsense? So no one in Iran can speak about the abuses in Iraq? No one in China can speak about the abuses in Kashmire? No one in India or Pakistan can talk about the abuses in North Korea?
Every country has its issues - so either all issues are on the table or none of them are.
Your country has an amazing history of Human Rights abuses from Mao till now -
but just because your country "cannot treat people fairly" does not mean you are precluded from commenting on the Iraq war for instance.
How would you feel if we were discussing the war in Iraq - and I told you that you were not allowed to have an opinion because you were Chinese.
the reason is simple - you and I are people - we are not governments
- I have not committed any crimes - therefore I have every right to call the Chinese government to task for its complacency in the Genocide in Dafur.
"fact is fact,truth is truth,"
there we agree - the Truth is that the Chinese government is supporting a genocidal regieme with money and arms, and turning a blind eye to the blood spilling in Dafur.
if you are not a strong enough person to recognise this fact because it reflects badly on your government (which you seem to worship) -
- then hopefully, when you grow older, you will learn to think for yourself.
This post was edited on: 2007-09-03 at 04:06 PM by: Luke Lieberman
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
邮件 24
帖子等级
爱说话的
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 50
国家：Japan
Province/State: Hokkaido
城市: Sapporo
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
September 3, 2007 - 10:05 PM
|
|
souptown wrote:
i just can say that you know nothing about the present China,or the teenages here..
Maybe Amnesty International does know something about the human rights situation in present China. Have you read the link I provided in my post? Or was it blocked like I predicted?
souptown wrote:
and,i mean that if someone could not do something well themselves,they have no rights to talk about others,this opinion is absolutely correct,if your dear country cannot treat people equally and fairly,you surely have no rights to talk about any human rights in China...
This is a very sad attitude. Just which government in the world has a human rights record spotless enough for you, so that its citizens may criticize other countries' human rights records? We should all speak out on human rights violations everywhere (including our own country), no matter what our own government is up to.
souptown wrote:
and,it is my last time to post any comments about this ridiculous topic,
it is of no use to urgue any more with you...
fact is fact,truth is truth,you will see it..
There is fact and truth, and then there is the "party line." Which one do you represent?
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
cubic
连接： Sep 4, 2007
邮件
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 男性, 21
国家：China
Province/State: Shanghai
城市: Baigang
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
September 4, 2007 - 07:14 AM
|
|
you both do pay close attention to China,how pround of us to recieve so much concern.
i do disagree to boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games,and i can hardly understand why there are some people here who are so interestend in it?it is foolish.
Oh, so sensitive! The Taiwan anthem was played at TAIWAN's games, not the PRC's. Oh, by the way, Taiwan placed 6th at the Asian Championships; the PRC, 10th. What happened, huh? Your last sentence suggests you are advocating violence against Japan. That sure is some "Olympic spirit" you got there.
there is no difference between China and Taiwan,we are both Chinese.you see,wherever Taiwan goes,it must be added as Taiwan in China first,like in Olympic Games,etc
and,if Japan must do something to hurt our friendship,we support in whichever ways to make it up.
I think the Taiwanese are wise to be wary of China. Obviously they do not consider themselves part of China
you really think so?have you seen the recent opinion poll in Taiwan?you really shouldn't judge something to make a conculsion just from one issue.
There is fact and truth, and then there is the "party line." Which one do you represent?
ya,there is fact and truth,and party line.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
Christy Walters
连接： Dec 4, 2007
邮件 1
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 22
国家：Canada
Province/State: Newfoundland and Labrador
城市: St. John's
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
March 21, 2008 - 07:37 PM
|
|
I wish no harm to the people of China, I actually want what's best for them and I do not want to support or subsidize a government who has such a history of committing human rights violations. While I feel it's a personal decision whether or not to boycott, I am just letting the people around me know the facts and make the decision on their own. I do know that many of my friends will be boycotting this year's Olympics along with many others around the world. This is less about making a direct impact and more about sending the message that we do not support these violations and hopefully some awareness can be raised on the issue. I wish China all the best in the future and hope that this year's Olympics will have a positive effect on the economy. I also hope the government will compensate all those people who were drove out of their homes in the order of the games. Best of luck.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
espoir
连接： Jun 7, 2007
邮件 3
帖子等级
发音不清
用户是：
下线
性别和年龄： 女性, 18
国家：United States
Province/State: Michigan
|
Re: Boycott the 2008 Beijing Olympics!
March 24, 2008 - 10:43 PM
|
|
While it's true that the Chinese government has a bloody history of human rights violations, we should not overlook the history of the development of any other great international power today. Take the United States for example, there are still occurrences of human rights violations and abuses in this country today. And what about the past? It has a scarred history of slavery, massacres of native peoples, Japanese internment, and was one of the last nations to outlaw segregation and give blacks and women the vote. Even a country like Canada, golden and peaceful as it is, can't deny its past of Japanese internment, exploitation of immigrant workers, oppression of Quebecois people, among others. Sure, these countries all came around to it and are somewhat unscathed nowadays, but China is still in its development -- the same development that the "developed" and "civilized" nations once experienced. A certain degree of understanding has to be reached, that China is not in itself "evil" and "corrupt", and that it's only undergoing a process.
I guess my point is, boycotting the Olympics is not going to change the current state of abuses in China. And before we do that, we should think of our responsibility as global citizens. We should support such a global event where people of all nationalities can gather together participate in friendly competition and interaction and we should find other ways to resolve the human rights encroachments in China and support the Chinese people in their struggle. The Olympics is not in essence a "lavish party thrown by the Chinese government", but an event hosted by the whole of the Chinese people to create empathy and cooperation between China and the world. Remember that the vice is the government, not the people.
|
|
回到顶部 |
链接这个地址
|
|
|
从帖子中显示：
|
|
主页
团体
