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mnopq
连接： Dec 20, 2005
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 22, 2007 - 07:11 AM
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Shmo wrote:
But regardless what I meant by that was very simple. I meant that everyone makes mistakes. Both people from Alqaeda, and people on teh American side. Ameircans have been responsible for innocent iraqi casualties as well. That is what I meant by "everyone". I meant "both sides".
This thread seems to have deviated somewhat from its original topic.
Shawn, there is all the difference of perceiving all of the West as enemies by Alqaeda, including innnocent Western civilians and the perception of terorrist groups (subject to a country-specific politics) as enemies and having not considered or unintended innocent civilian losses.
Al-Qaeda targets indiscriminantly both civilians and military, regardless of their social, political and ethnic adherence.
Western military in the region (Afganistan, Iraq) is tagetting, at least initially, what they have dubbed as terrorist groups, which are a group of armed man under one or another of radical clerics. It is a factm however, that sometimes many civilians suffer as a result of Western military operations.
The whole difference is therefore idealogical, if we forget that on both sides innocent civilians die. Its the intention that counts...
Luke, we have to admit that as much as Western military claims to be targetting only terorrist groups it does unintentionally harm civilians and what is more important is that it has hard time learning from its own errors.
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prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 22, 2007 - 08:54 PM
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Luke 347, Shmo 0
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 03:38 AM
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Interesting thread .... I am slightly disappointed that it is closing ....
The thread is basically about Al Qaeda's strategy....which to my mind is baseless, irrational and best described as "suicide" !
There are definitely better ways to fight what they call a " justified" war. I am sure this is not what Allah had in mind while talking about Jihad ...anyway that is a whole new discussion... The point is their strategy is 'not very good' !( apparently an understatement)
Coming to the US govt's tactics... why are they in Iraq ???
They shouldnt have been there in the first place...There is actually no justification for this invasion ! for Oil ? for revenge against Saddam ??? the motives were definitely not selfless !
I am not blaming the soldiers or the army....they only follow orders ...there are a few rotten apples in every army who give a bad name to it but majority of them are only doing what they are being told .....
So the strategists ... those sitting in the oval office definitely did not worry about the innocent civilians in Iraq ....
The only difference I can see here between Alqaeda's and US govt's strategy is that Alqaeda is working under the influence of misguided faith and a lust for power ( a fatal combination for the future of the planet...hence there is a need to capture them and bring them to the right path or else they will not stop till they have destroyed everything we hold dear....and I am sure it won't be just the west which suffers .... every country will suffer... ex. Mumbai blasts, blasts in Indonesia and in Spain etc )
whereas.. the US govt is doing it all for profit(oil ) and power ( to maintain their status of the most powerful nation of the world, which was challenged by the 911 attack )
I guess it is 'easier' to bring an imperialist power to question its own actions if the citizens decide to do so ....which I am sure they are doing ....but I think it's not enough ....The US govt must be made to evaluate it's actions objectively and should be made to act responsible !!!!
As Stan lee says...."with great power comes great responsibility "
US govt should be the first one to realise that and start setting the things right ....
and I am sure others would soon follow .....
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 03:39 AM
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easier said than done...but I had to say it ....
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Shawn S.
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 09:58 AM
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Good post, anu.
I don't think the US so much started the war for money. I mean if you look at the US economiy now, it's in the worst shape in 30 years (although perhaps their advisors were simply wrong).
Saddam needed to be ousted. He's certainly not the only one and probably not the worst one either, but he was a man that should not have been in power.
My personal opinion was that it was just poorly executed. I agree that the US did not really consider the lives of the Iraqi citizens. I think the U.S. looked at it more from a US vs. Iraq point of view when in reality it's US vs. Iraq segment1 vs. Iraq segment2...
hehe, as for prieteen...grow up? act your age? hehehe 
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AFGHANISTAN
连接： Nov 8, 2006
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 10:36 AM
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i really never wanted to get indulge in this discussion so deep,,, becuase i know its really a complex issue,, but what i wanted to say, I couldnt interpret in a good way, so that u Guys could understand very well, Any way i just wanted to know ur views and ur opinions,, its not important for me whether u r against me or not,, whats important for me that i got to know defferent views, Thanx alot , good Luck
This post was edited on: 2007-07-23 at 10:37 AM by: AFGHANISTAN
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Luke Lieberman
连接： Feb 13, 2003
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 11:34 AM
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I appreciate the Stan Lee quote ; - )
obviously Shmo is wrong - again, factually - about the US economy which is not in a recession right now - has an extremely low unemployment rate - and the stock Market is around 14,000 - which means it has gone up about 15% since the beginning of the year.
economy is not perfect, inflation and trade deficits - but a hell of alot better then 30 years ago - as then we were in a recession that threatened to become a depression.
Anyway Shmo - I don't have questions for you - I understand you well enough - I simply disagree.
and on that note - here is an article on how Iraqi Sunni insurgent groups are turning on Al Qaeda because of their babaric methods.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2121006.ece
"Fed up with being part of a group that cuts off a person’s face with piano wire to teach others a lesson, dozens of low-level members of al-Qaeda in Iraq are daring to become informants for the US military in a hostile Baghdad neighbourhood.
The ground-breaking move in Doura is part of a wider trend that has started in other al-Qaeda hotspots across the country and in which Sunni insurgent groups and tribal sheikhs have stood together with the coalition against the extremist movement.
“They are turning. We are talking to people who we believe have worked for al-Qaeda in Iraq and want to reconcile and have peace,” said Colonel Ricky Gibbs, commander of the 4th Brigade, 1st Infantry Division, which oversees the area.
The sewage-filled streets of Doura, a Sunni Arab enclave in south Baghdad, provide an ugly setting for what US commanders say is al-Qaeda’s last stronghold in the city. The secretive group, however, appears to be losing its grip as a “surge” of US troops in the neighbourhood – part of the latest effort by President Bush to end the chaos in Iraq – has resulted in scores of fighters being killed, captured or forced to flee.
“Al-Qaeda’s days are numbered and right now he is scrambling,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Stephen Michael, who commands a battalion of 700 troops in Doura.
A key factor is that local people and members of al-Qaeda itself have become sickened by the violence and are starting to rebel, Lieutenant-Colonel Michael said. “The people have got to deny them sanctuary and that is exactly what is happening.”
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Luke Lieberman
连接： Feb 13, 2003
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 11:35 AM
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Al-Qaeda informants comprise largely members of the Doura network who found themselves either working with the group after the US-led invasion in March 2003, or signed up to earn extra cash because there were no other jobs going. Disgusted at the attacks and intimidation techniques used on friends, neighbours and even relatives, they are now increasingly looking for a way out, US officers say.
“It is only after al-Qaeda has become truly barbaric and done things like, to teach lessons to people, cut their face off with piano wire in front of their family and then murdered everybody except one child who told the tale afterwards . . . that people realise how much of a mess they are in,” Lieutenant James Danly, 31, who works on military intelligence in Doura, said.
It is impossible to corroborate the claims, but he said that scores of junior al-Qaeda in Iraq members there had become informants since May, including one low-level cell leader who gave vital information after his arrest.
“He gave us dates, places and names and who did what,” Lieutenant Danly said. When asked why he was being so forthcoming, the man said: “Because I am sick of it and I hate them, and I am done.”
Working with insurgents – even those who claim to have switched sides – is a leap of faith for both sides. Every informant who visits Forward Operating Base Falcon, a vast military camp on the southern outskirts of Baghdad, is blindfolded when brought in and out to avoid gleaning any information about his surroundings.
The risk sometimes pays off. A recent tip-off led to the fatal shooting of Abu Kaldoun, one of three senior al-Qaeda leaders in Doura, during a US raid last week. “He was turned in by one of his own,” Colonel Michael said.
Progress with making contacts and gathering actionable information is slow because al-Qaeda has persuasive methods of keeping people quiet. This month it beheaded two men in the street and pinned a note on to their corpses giving warning that anyone who cooperated with US troops would meet the same fate.
The increased presence of US forces in Doura, however, is encouraging insiders to overcome their fear and divulge what they know.
“People in al-Qaeda come to us and give us information,” The informants were not seeking an amnesty for crimes that they had committed. “They just do not want to be killed,”
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 01:38 PM
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If it were as simple as the way President Bush describes them ,obviously inspired by the classic western The Good, the Bad and the Ugly ....things wouldnt have been so botched up......
The situation is much more complicated ....
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Shawn S.
连接： Jul 9, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 23, 2007 - 03:54 PM
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anuriandima84 wrote:
If it were as simple as the way President Bush describes them ,obviously inspired by the classic western The Good, the Bad and the Ugly ....things wouldnt have been so botched up......
The situation is much more complicated ....
Yes, very much so!
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Dorothy and Oz
连接： Jul 17, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
August 9, 2007 - 08:09 PM
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Dun dun dun yet again "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom figher"
If there was no Al Qaeda? Thered be someone else to blow innocent people up and sure, if thats how they feel is the best way for them to be heard, so be it. But seriously, did anyone actually hate a Muslim before they found out that a group of extremists killed a few americans? So many Muslims... even middle eastern people are being beaten up and egged and stuff like that... because now society thinks that they are all a bunch of people killing psychos...
So is Al Qaeda actually helping out and "protecting" the muslim faith?
No freaken way. Now everyone hates Muslims and theres heaps of poor lil muslim people trying to excuse it say, 'no we are not like that they are just extremists' but because of the terrorist attacks no body will ever believe them.
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