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prieten47
beigetreten: Oct 26, 2006
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 09:14 AM
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ajay78 wrote:
prieten47 wrote
You are right, if they try fighting the same way the West does, by using economic pressure, boycotts, peaceful demonstrations, peaceful resistance, by explaining to us peacefully why we should embrace Islam and Sharia law and reject our own religions and democratic institutions, they would fail.
The West has been doing a lot more than the peaceful things you describe.
Obviously I wasn't suggesting that the coalition forces were just engaging in "sit-ins" and fighting with pillows.
I was looking back at the time before the September 11, the time when Alqaeda was waging a unilateral war against the USA (see my post with the chronology of Alqaeda's attacks on the USA (and Saudis and Kenyans and Tanzanians).
I was trying to suggest that Alqaeda could have chosen to fight with a "war of ideas" instead of a "war of terrorism".
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Shawn S.
beigetreten: Jul 9, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 10:07 AM
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prieten47 wrote:
Shmo wrote:
Steve, I'm not sure they are the one who are the cowards. They aren't the ones who sit behind Marble desks on the telephone with someone who's controlling a robot to drop a bomb on some people from a far distance.
"Steve, I'm not sure they are the one who are the cowards"
Shmo, this sentence can only be construed, by any English speaker of even modest ability, to mean that you don't think AlQaeda are the cowards. You consider "the ones who sit behind marble desks on the telephone..." to be the cowards.
If this is not what you meant, then feel free to apologize and correct yourself instead of denying what you obviously said. There is no humiliation in admitting you were wrong. As a matter of fact, it is a sign of maturity.
hahaha, feel free to apologize?
prieten, please explain to me to understanding of the words "I'm not sure". Also, you say "to mean that you don't think AlQaeda are the cowards". Perhaps I should have been more clear. Both sides can be cowardly.
Please feel free to apologize and correct yourself for being so condescending and rude instead of pretending you're on a pedestal. There is no humiliation in admitting you were rude. As a matter of fact, it is a sign of maturity.
"I was trying to suggest that Alqaeda could have chosen to fight with a "war of ideas" instead of a "war of terrorism". "
That is not there way though. You can not sit an extremist down and ask them "how can we resolve this peacefully?" They are extremists. They want what they want and nothing else. There is very little to no room for sacrifices, because they are right, and everyone else are just imbeciles
This post was edited on: 2007-07-16 at 10:11 AM by: Shawn S.
This post was edited on: 2007-07-16 at 10:12 AM by: Shawn S.
This post was edited on: 2007-07-16 at 10:14 AM by: Shawn S.
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Sockit2Ya
beigetreten: Feb 27, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 11:58 AM
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This thread was already concluded many posts ago.
If Al-Qaeda stratgey is to attack unarmed, innocent ciivlians like they are doing in Iraq and Afganistan and dozens and dozens of other countries worldwide, then that is cowardice in its most pitiful form.
The US and the other coalition forces don't go after unarmed, innocent civilians. They go after terrorists that are fully armed and try to protect innocent civilians from being killed by animals such as al-qaida and other extremist groups.
That's the difference. You can't deny this without making yourself look like a fool.
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Shawn S.
beigetreten: Jul 9, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 12:28 PM
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Oh and I whole-heartedly agree (assuming we exclude the small cases in which US coalition forces have killed/raped/injured innocent civilians).
I can see how they would disagree though. And I think that's what got some people upset.
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alin love rai
beigetreten: Dec 3, 2006
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 01:26 PM
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i read all the posts and my, my, my, alot has been already said. some to which i agree so very much. but to make it straight, my view on the alqaeda;s strategy is disgusting. its a crinme against all muslims and non-muslims ( as they see it!)
how can u say it anything except disgusting when innocent lives are lost? some one up in the row commented on the non-violence act of gandhi which recieves my full support.
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Sockit2Ya
beigetreten: Feb 27, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 01:58 PM
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Shmo wrote:
Oh and I whole-heartedly agree (assuming we exclude the small cases in which US coalition forces have killed/raped/injured innocent civilians).
I can see how they would disagree though. And I think that's what got some people upset.
Yes, I agree too.
You say the small number of cases, i.e. the isolated and very uncommon occurances of US troops killings unarmed, innocent civilians. These troops were cowards too.
But lets all face reality, al-qaeda does this on a daily basis, whereas US and other coalition troops have done it very little. The troops that did it were put on trial and convicted.
The difference again, to use simple logic, is al-qaeda's strategy of killing civilians to instill sectarian warfare and terror and the coalition's prupose to combat this.
Again, this can't be denied.
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Shawn S.
beigetreten: Jul 9, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 03:07 PM
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Absolutely true.
I actually had a discussion on another forum about the American troops and some of the cases which been brought forward of raping and killing of innocent civilians. I guess when you have as many people as you do in an army, there are bound to be some bad eggs.
However that is just our standards. Alqaeda's standards....I wonder if they wouldn't let someone "in" for being bad?
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Luke Lieberman
beigetreten: Feb 13, 2003
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 16, 2007 - 08:57 PM
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I think the difference is simple - The Coalition is aiming for fighters - they are going aftyer the people who are fighting them.
Occassionally, innocent people are killed in the process - but the innocents are not the targets.
I agree Shmo that Al Qaeda is a desperate group of radicals -
that does not make them brave, because they target innocent civlians -
if they are brave they will fight with the army - even if they are forced to use unconventional means to fight the army - at least it is an army.
but Al Qaeda blows up weddings in Jordan, and buses in Londen, trains in Madrid and trains in India.
Their goal is to kill civilians - innocent people - this just is cowardice.
I am not suggesting, by the way that Rumsfield, Bush and Cheany are brave - they don't know what it means to be in combat - they only know how to send in others.
Shmo - I have no problem calling Bush and Cheany any number of things - they have royally screwed this all up -
and it is really important to deal with properly -
I was in NY on 9/11 - I know what is at stake - and Bush is clumsey arrogant and foolish.
Bin Laden was trying to provoke an overreaction - and he succeeded.
torrorists are often looking to provoke over reactions - because they recruit amongst such misery.
As for people behind desks - I don't remember seeing Bin Laden or Zawahiri wearing any of these explosive vests -
or any of their children - I wonder why they don't send their own children to paradise
It is different to deal with armed men
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AFGHANISTAN
beigetreten: Nov 8, 2006
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 17, 2007 - 02:36 AM
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luke wrote:
firstly Jalalie - You talk about Al Qaeda being a defensive organization - and the US of being "killers of humanity"
Answer me this - was the US in your country - in Afghanistan, before 9/11? Were we bothering you?
Didn't we support your fight to push the Soviets out of Afghanistan?
what thanks did we get for the help that we gave your Mujahadeen when they fought the Russians?
Was is a "defensive" action when Al Qaeda savagely attacked the most historic city in the United States?
what was the reason Jalalie? Why did they attack us?
As to my Canadian friend - I suppose a serial killer is also "brave" when he sticks a knife in a woman, as opposed to a sniper who shoots them at long range.
hitting below the belt, fighting without honor - is the definition of cowardice.
.. hehe*..exactly,, i agree with u ,, You supported our fight against the Russians,, ,, but the war was then gone into conspiracy of the world practitioners.. i admit that alqaeda was not supposed to attack New York, and americans got their revenge by attacking Afghanistan,, but this war is no more a compaign against the real sinners but the war on terror has now become war in error. in Afghanistan till now americans are fighting against Taliban,, Americans can vanish all the hostile actions against it self,, but then there will be no chance for them to stay in Afghanistan.its all the Game,, Americans attacked iraq with no rational reason,, Can u answer this,, and u see the present situations of Iraq. Americans did the wrong,, and yes Alqaeda in Iraq are the freedom fighters,, i want to make it clear that the war in Iraq itself is a legal war agaisnt Americans to defend the country and Islam, but there are some errors which are not acceptable ,, but its impossible to make war free of mistakes ,, Like wise in Afghanistan Americans kill innocent people and they consider this part of war,, and there is no apologize for it,,and there is no compensation for it,, So what do u think, americans are cowards or not,, do they not deserve to be called Killers of humanity,, or its just an alqeada,,
This post was edited on: 2007-07-17 at 02:47 AM by: AFGHANISTAN
This post was edited on: 2007-07-17 at 02:50 AM by: AFGHANISTAN
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Sockit2Ya
beigetreten: Feb 27, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 17, 2007 - 08:33 AM
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If the mentality of people living in Iraq is that al-Qaida are 'freedom fighters', then that explains why the situation in Iraq has not gotten any better.
Al-Qaida cause more civilian deaths than anybody else, but people are still simple-minded enough and naive as to believe that they are 'freedom fighters'.
Its sad how people can be this ignorant, I'm just glad I'm not one of these people.
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AFGHANISTAN
beigetreten: Nov 8, 2006
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 17, 2007 - 09:00 AM
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stevew wrote:
If the mentality of people living in Iraq is that al-Qaida are 'freedom fighters', then that explains why the situation in Iraq has not gotten any better.
Al-Qaida cause more civilian deaths than anybody else, but people are still simple-minded enough and naive as to believe that they are 'freedom fighters'.
Its sad how people can be this ignorant, I'm just glad I'm not one of these people.
if Alqaeda is not supported by the people of Iraq,, the Americans would have not faced such difficulties,, and u see how Alqaeda is operative and succcessful in its fighting agaisnt Americans,, But its Amerians who have erupted the civil war,, Americans are not trapped and they will be punished for their foolishness,, hehe
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Luke Lieberman
beigetreten: Feb 13, 2003
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 17, 2007 - 11:53 AM
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The local Sunni insurgents are turning on Al Qaeda and working with America now -
Because even the Baathists cannot accept Al Qaeda targeting Iraqi civilians.
Al Qaeda has been trying to promote a sectarian war - that is why they blew up the Golden Mosque in Summara - and blow up market places full of Shia -
to create a civil war and mahem and make it impossible for the Iraqi government to take hold or for American forces take control.
As for Afghanistan - the reason the Taliban have been able to come back is because they are hiding out in Pakistan.
that is why the US has not been able to totally destroy them - Pakistan presents a challenge because we cannot simply strike on Pakistani territory - we have to depend on the Pakistani government to deal with Taliban and Al Qaeda on their soil - and the Pakistanis frankly have been spotty.
Also the Iranians are helping the Taliban at this point.
The idea that we are not vanquishing them because we like to stay there...
there is nothing in your country - why stay there? what do you have that we want that would make us stay there longer then we have to - to deal with terrorism?
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Sockit2Ya
beigetreten: Feb 27, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 17, 2007 - 01:33 PM
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if Alqaeda is not supported by the people of Iraq,, the Americans would have not faced such difficulties,, and u see how Alqaeda is operative and succcessful in its fighting agaisnt Americans,, But its Amerians who have erupted the civil war,, Americans are not trapped and they will be punished for their foolishness,, hehe
Talk is cheap, you need to back up your claims with soild facts and evidence if you want to be taken seriously.
In the meantime, I highely suggest you visit this great website called faithfreedom.org. It will help educate you about your own ignorance.
This post was edited on: 2007-07-17 at 01:56 PM by: Sockit2Ya
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Shawn S.
beigetreten: Jul 9, 2007
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 17, 2007 - 08:02 PM
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Let's clear something up, luke. you keep on using words like "brave" and "corward" and "courageous". Do me a favour and define all of these for me? What is your definition of those words because I guess people can interpret those differently.
"if they are brave they will fight with the army "
See it's funny, because you say brave, however many people would say "that's not brave, that's stupid". Since we both understand the numbers of coalition vs. alqaeda, would a 1 vs. 20 well equipped soldiers be brave or stupid?
"As for people behind desks - I don't remember seeing Bin Laden or Zawahiri wearing any of these explosive vests - "
No, they do not wear those vests but the men who make descisions in their organization do fight. It would not make sense for them to wear a vest. And I do not suggest either that to know what it's like, you need to be at the front line, because that is stupid as well
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Shawn S.
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Re: Your Views Abt Alqaeda's Strategy
July 17, 2007 - 08:17 PM
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oh, just shut your yap, steve. I can't believe you talk about ignorance and being naive. I really wish you could look at yourself from a 3rd person point of view because you are not practicing what you preach. I've never seen someone more full of themselves.
"Al-Qaida cause more civilian deaths than anybody else, but people are still simple-minded enough and naive as to believe that they are 'freedom fighters'"
simple-minded and naive? Who the hell are you to call the people of another nation simple-minded and naive. I mean where do you get off saying those things. Are you there? Do you experience everyday life there? Do you know what it's like? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL no, so you can just simmer down and stop making us Canadians look so bad! Did it ever occur to you that maybe the population is cheering for their own side? Everyone makes mistakes, and you want ot single out alqaeda's civilian casualties?
Also, you tell Jal that "talk is cheap?" Are you F'ING kidding me?! Practice what you preach, buddy! Where do you get those numbers that alqaeda causes more civilian casualties! I really hope you have a figure for this (and not one pulled off some website) otherwise...well you know what you have done.
You know the thing about claiming to not be ignorant, is that you'll never know if you're ignorant. Then I will do you a favour, dear steve, you are ignorant. And not for no reason either, steve. Steve, you are ignorant because you clump people of another nation together, and you insult these people. You talk as if you know their way of life, and claim that they are stupid, because they don't do what YOU (and remember we're talking ignorance here) want them to do. That, steve, is why I am informing you that I believe you should re-evaluate your position, and how you talk down to other people.
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