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Raine
连接： Jan 25, 2006
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 10, 2007 - 06:24 PM
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it could be that global warming is being blown out of proportion, but it could also be that it is right on and just doesn't have the proof you require. waht happens in that case? we'll be looking at the rising water thinking "oh crap. i should have bought i boat". it is said that the CO2 in the atmosphere won't be filtered out for another 20-40 years so if you do finally get your proof, it will probably be to late. part of the theory could have political undertones, but there are ways to fight global warming without supporting those politics. just buy a couple of florescent lightbulbs. or don't drive to the store next door. or recycle every now and then.
and don't think of us teenagers as brainwashed fools. some of us are capable of thinking for ourselves.
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Slick Frenzy
连接： Aug 24, 2007
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 10, 2007 - 06:51 PM
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JennySmith wrote:
it could be that global warming is being blown out of proportion, but it could also be that it is right on and just doesn't have the proof you require. waht happens in that case? we'll be looking at the rising water thinking "oh crap. i should have bought i boat". it is said that the CO2 in the atmosphere won't be filtered out for another 20-40 years so if you do finally get your proof, it will probably be to late. part of the theory could have political undertones, but there are ways to fight global warming without supporting those politics. just buy a couple of florescent lightbulbs. or don't drive to the store next door. or recycle every now and then.
and don't think of us teenagers as brainwashed fools. some of us are capable of thinking for ourselves.
I've never heard of "proof" later for what we think we need now. Thats the frustrating thing about science, it requires information that can be tested and retested and yield the same result.
there is nothing wrong with having pet projects that one might want to do personally. There is nothing wrong with doing things that are constructive and make a person feel better about themselves. If one makes the environment their project then more power to them if that is there bag. (preferably not a plastic bag)
So to say im looking for a certain proof or a proof that is good enough for me is not true. I'm looking for the science that backs up the claims of many who present global warming as a clear and present danger. Not the "we all agree, so it's true" arguement. I can go to Christianity or Islam etc to get that. Now if you want to refer to global warming as a religion...then im okay with that.
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Robert Margolis
连接： Nov 15, 2000
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 11, 2007 - 12:24 PM
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It is interesting that scientific consensus typically is accepted. Perhaps the large economic consequences of climate change has prompted many to question it...
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prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 12, 2007 - 05:35 AM
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It's like Al Gore said in his movie:
"Here we have bricks of gold! There we have the planet Earth! Hmmmm, those bricks of gold sure do look good...."
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Slick Frenzy
连接： Aug 24, 2007
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 12, 2007 - 09:21 AM
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prieten47 wrote:
It's like Al Gore said in his movie:
"Here we have bricks of gold! There we have the planet Earth! Hmmmm, those bricks of gold sure do look good...."
he also said he invented the internet. you decide.
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mnopq
连接： Dec 20, 2005
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 12, 2007 - 03:53 PM
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The question is not whether Global Warning is a fact or myth. It is a fact, and not because I say so but because template of average temperature distributions observed during last several decades shows a rise.
Now it is up to you to request a hardcore scientific prove that this rise is not merely "noise" or in other words a fluctuation and that statistics would smother it.
The real question is what can you do to tackle Global Warming.
As it is known Global Warming is caused by an increasing amount of carbon dioxide and methane in our atmosphere, which do not allow the earth to reflect back sunrays.
It all boils down to getting rid of the two principal gases. Carbon dioxide, it seems, is the most significant one.
What can be done to get rid of it?
- hide the carbon (recommended to hid beneath several km in oceans where it will do no harm and it will take a millenia for it to resurface or affect any significantly on the natural habitat of the ocean);
- adjusting cloud levels to reflect away sunrays (its not difficult to make clouds: cloud layers must be adjusted especially on oceans and other deep-water reserves while these are the ones with dark blue color and are retainers of the significant amount of sunrays);
- planting trees and other vegetation to absorb carbon dioxide;
- house construction and laying down of roads in lighter colors (a study in LA conducted in 1997 showed significant temperature drop during summer in the city).
First two points still get little attention but are the most significant in terms of positive countering of Global Warming.
H.
This post was edited on: 2007-09-12 at 03:57 PM by: Hayk Hakobyan
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Slick Frenzy
连接： Aug 24, 2007
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 12, 2007 - 06:30 PM
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mnopq wrote:
The question is not whether Global Warning is a fact or myth. It is a fact, and not because I say so but because template of average temperature distributions observed during last several decades shows a rise.
Global warming is not fact. If it were it could be proven over and over again. In fact, many of the computer models used to average out temperatures past and future have been brought into serious doubt...also, this is not just becuase I say so.
temperature is not the measure of global warming. our weather forcasters can barely predict 5 days ahead with any certainty. Climate is the real measure, and climate cant be predicted by have a few decades of data. Climate is much more long term than that.
1 + 1 = 2 is fact. not 3, not couch, not yellow...no matter how much we might want it to be yellow. 1 + 1 = 2 is provable over and over again.
I do not accept global warming as fact.
I do accept global warming as guessing, manis or religion.
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prieten47
连接： Oct 26, 2006
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 04:05 AM
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Intageous, may I inquire about your background? What is your expertise in climatology, that you can so easily dismiss the science done by so many real climatologists? I think the verdict is in: global warming is real and it's getting worse.
Most of the global warming poo-pooing editorials I have read recently are written by economists who say, "It's too late to do anything! Any of the solutions to global warming are far too expensive. We should just hunker down and live with it."
I don't want to live with it. I want to do something to slow it down and eventually stop it. I care about the islands and coastal areas which will be flooded, the fertile land areas that will become deserts, the increasing range of malaria, etc. I guess you don't.
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mnopq
连接： Dec 20, 2005
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 05:00 AM
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Intageous,
Below some key figures and their sources.
- The third assessment report of the International Panel on Climate Change estimates that the global average surface temperature rose by an average of 0.6°C over the 20th century and this is likely due to the increasing concentration of atmospheric greenhouse gases. The panel expects a mean global temperature increase of between 1.4 and 5.8°C by 2100.
- A recent report by the Arctic Council suggests that temperatures in the arctic region rose almost twice as fast as in the rest of the world over the last few decades and that they will rise by between 4 and 7°C by 2100.
- 10 million hectares of ancient forests are being cleared every year, thus reducing the available carbon sink.
- In 2002, two-thirds of the world’s final energy consumption came from fossil fuels (43% from oil). Global energy consumption has risen by 56% since 1973 and is expected to continue its steady increase over the next several decades, fuelled by economic expansion and development.
- The extraction, conversion to useful energy and combustion of fossil fuels releases into the atmosphere approximately 80% of human-induced greenhouse gas emissions. Between 1973 and 2002, these emissions increased by more than 50%.
- In1998, the transportation sector accounted for 26% of global CO2 emissions. The transport sector’s share of emissions has grown faster than that of other sectors over the last 20 years.
References:
Baumert, K.A., Perkaus J.F. and Kete, N. Great Expectations: Can International Emissions Trading Deliver an Equitable Climate Regime?
Climate Policy 2003; Vol. 3 (2): 137-148.
International Energy Agency. Key Energy Statistics 2007.
http://www.iea.org/textbase/nppdf/free/2007/key_stats_2007.pdf
Global Business Environment, Shell International.
Energy Needs, Choices and Possibilities, Scenarios to 2050. Exploring the Future, 2001.
Watson, R., ed. Climate Change 2001: Third Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, 2001.
http://www.ipcc.ch/
The Arctic Council. Impacts of a Warming Arctic: Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, 2004.
http://www.amap.no/acia/index.html
Up to you to check these facts and to draw conclusions..
This post was edited on: 2007-09-13 at 05:12 AM by: Hayk Hakobyan
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Robert Margolis
连接： Nov 15, 2000
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 10:07 AM
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Also the models are now very good at predicting CLIMATE. Climate is averaged over long periods of time rather than weather which has greater variations. This is why casinos can predict monthly income, but cannot specifically predict a particular roulette spin.
I certainly sympathize with the sceptics. We have an issue that creates a large disruption, yet does not have a nice strong immediate feedback mechanism so that we can reach certainty quickly for us laymen.
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Slick Frenzy
连接： Aug 24, 2007
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 06:03 PM
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when i say that I do not believe in global warming as fact, I refer to the religious notion that man is casuing it to happen and that there will be some sort of apocolypse (in keeping with its religious nature) if we do not do something.
Im not a scientist...I'm just mildly observant. I remember when this craziness was called "global cooling" That wasnt but 25 years ago.
The planet has slighty increased temperature, so have solar storms on the sun...also, the planet mars is showing it's ice caps to be receading at the same rate as earths. I wonder if George W. Bush has been parking his SUV on Mars again, while he and his oil buddies plan their evilness.
Another common defence is that if anyone disagrees with man made global warming, they must be paid off by big oil or they are economy driven. It goes both ways. There are just as many powerful people out there who will benefit from mankind being controlled under the chains of a "Green" world. Scientists like their grants incase you forgot.
At its root, this will be an attack against freedom and freedom's main engine...the free market. For decades many have longed for the demise of capitalism...they may have finally found a way.
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Raine
连接： Jan 25, 2006
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 09:22 PM
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drown-ing pol-ar bears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*cries*
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Slick Frenzy
连接： Aug 24, 2007
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 09:36 PM
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JennySmith wrote:
drown-ing pol-ar bears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*cries**
polar bears on broken ice are not drowning...lol....polar bears are like some of the best swimmers on the plant...like up to 60 miles. Polar bears on broken ice are playing...the picture was agenda driven
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Raine
连接： Jan 25, 2006
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 10:04 PM
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"The researchers were startled to find bears having to swim up to 60 miles across open sea to find food. They are being forced into the long voyages because [/b]the ice floes from which they feed are melting, becoming smaller and drifting farther apart. "
"Although polar bears are strong swimmers, they are adapted for swimming close to the shore. Their sea journeys leave them them vulnerable to exhaustion, hypothermia or being swamped by waves. "
"According to the new research, four bear carcases were found floating in one month in a single patch of sea off the north coast of Alaska, where [b]average summer temperatures have increased by 2-3C degrees since 1950s. "
"The scientists believe such drownings are becoming widespread across the Arctic, an inevitable consequence of the doubling in the past 20 years of the proportion of polar bears having to swim in open seas. "
"As the ice pack retreats north in the summer between June and October, the bears must travel between ice floes to continue hunting in areas such as the shallow water of the continental shelf off the Alaskan coast — one of the most food-rich areas in the Arctic. "
"However, last summer the ice cap receded about 200 miles further north than the average of two decades ago, forcing the bears to undertake far longer voyages between floes. "
"The new study, carried out in part of the Beaufort Sea, shows that between 1986 and 2005 just 4% of the bears spotted off the north coast of Alaska were swimming in open waters. Not a single drowning had been documented in the area. "
"However, last September, when the ice cap had retreated a record 160 miles north of Alaska, 51 bears were spotted, of which 20% were seen in the open sea, swimming as far as 60 miles off shore. "
"The researchers returned to the vicinity a few days later after a fierce storm and found four dead bears floating in the water."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article767459.ece
they must have been playing pretty rough
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Slick Frenzy
连接： Aug 24, 2007
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 13, 2007 - 10:50 PM
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JennySmith wrote:
"The researchers were startled to find bears having to swim up to 60 miles across open sea to find food. They are being forced into the long voyages because [/b]the ice floes from which they feed are melting, becoming smaller and drifting farther apart. "
"Although polar bears are strong swimmers, they are adapted for swimming close to the shore. Their sea journeys leave them them vulnerable to exhaustion, hypothermia or being swamped by waves. "
"According to the new research, four bear carcases were found floating in one month in a single patch of sea off the north coast of Alaska, where [b]average summer temperatures have increased by 2-3C degrees since 1950s. "
"The scientists believe such drownings are becoming widespread across the Arctic, an inevitable consequence of the doubling in the past 20 years of the proportion of polar bears having to swim in open seas. "
"As the ice pack retreats north in the summer between June and October, the bears must travel between ice floes to continue hunting in areas such as the shallow water of the continental shelf off the Alaskan coast — one of the most food-rich areas in the Arctic. "
"However, last summer the ice cap receded about 200 miles further north than the average of two decades ago, forcing the bears to undertake far longer voyages between floes. "
"The new study, carried out in part of the Beaufort Sea, shows that between 1986 and 2005 just 4% of the bears spotted off the north coast of Alaska were swimming in open waters. Not a single drowning had been documented in the area. "
"However, last September, when the ice cap had retreated a record 160 miles north of Alaska, 51 bears were spotted, of which 20% were seen in the open sea, swimming as far as 60 miles off shore. "
"The researchers returned to the vicinity a few days later after a fierce storm and found four dead bears floating in the water."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article767459.ece
they must have been playing pretty rough
they are bears after all
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