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Yo-shin
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How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 19, 2007 - 03:26 AM
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I'm a friend of an American family in the south. Reccently I wa surprised to find that they remained sceptical on the global warming issue.
They seemed to have enough proof to question the science I learnt towards global warming and the conversation got "complacted" when it came down on politics. I don't think Al Gore's documentary is gonna help 'cause they were so "republicant".
I was wondering whether you guys have run into some more "stubborn" sceptics.
How are we supposed to debate and convince them, the most importantly, get them into our environmental process?
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Prince Charles Jiduwah
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 19, 2007 - 04:03 AM
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The threat is REAL and every one MUST take action.
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Robert Margolis
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 19, 2007 - 07:14 AM
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There is certainly a lot of information out there. Unfortunately, climate science is not precise enough to say "Island X will flood on June 10, 2008" This gives many folks pause on taking action for what seems uncertain science.
The argument I have had the best luck with is that we are releasing millions of years of stored carbon is just a couple of centuries. Such a change is unprecedented and all the evidence is that the climate is changing at a faster rate.
You might want to check out the Youth Carbon group at itsgettinghotinhere.org.
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Ajay Kamalakaran
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 19, 2007 - 09:22 AM
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I happen to be one of the sceptics. I think a lot of this is hype by scientists and others who stand to make a lot of money from research.
It's not that I don't believe that the environment is being destroyed but I think the catastrophies predicted are great exaggerations.
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Erick Ochieng Otieno
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 19, 2007 - 11:49 AM
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airmail wrote:
I'm a friend of an American family in the south. Reccently I wa surprised to find that they remained sceptical on the global warming issue.
They seemed to have enough proof to question the science I learnt towards global warming and the conversation got "complacted" when it came down on politics. I don't think Al Gore's documentary is gonna help 'cause they were so "republicant".
I was wondering whether you guys have run into some more "stubborn" sceptics.*
How are we supposed to debate and convince them, the most importantly, get them into our environmental process?
It is great for you to have the same concern that others do have. By way of convincing the sckeptics, I believe that what you have done is one of the way to do it. Getting the youth understanding the consequences and proving to these leaders that their is a lot at stake in the isue of Global Warming from a young one will surely make them understand quite clearly where we come from. It was such a relief to learn that President G. Bush had thought of working together with other world leaders on this. This was a step forward and a plus for those with the concern as you. So, what is the way of convincing them? By showing them what we realy think about the issues.
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Robert Margolis
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 19, 2007 - 12:35 PM
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Another issue is that often the same people who talk about climate change are also against solutions in their neighborhoods (e.g., climate change is an enormous problem, but don't put windmills off MY beach). Such a contradiction makes the claims on climate change sound dubious.
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That guy
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 19, 2007 - 06:13 PM
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Different tactics work for different situations.
If you ever encounter someone who has actually been hired by the oil companies for the express purpose of perpetuating their version of the truth, do not engage in debate. Read/listen to what they have to say so you can construct better arguments, but the exchange of information should be one way. They do not deserve the dignity of debate. You may also encounter the mentally ill, especially on some of the darker online communities, and treat them as you do oil company lobbyists and shills. Both groups share a telltale absolute conviction and inability to admit errors on their part.
If you meet somebody who is not also talking to their imaginary friends or representing Halliburton, then its time to actually debate.
You may still find disciples of the original lie, which was that the planet is not warming. Show them the before and after shots of glaciers taken decades apart, and they usually come around. Unfortunately, the oil companies and kooks have adapted their tactics.
The latest version of the truth they have produced is that the planet is warming, and it has nothing at all to do with humans. They may point to a National Geographic article on increasing Martian temperatures as proof that the sun is getting hotter and heating the Earth.
Point them at this later update to that story. It wasn't the sun...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070404-mars-warming.html
The other version of the truth still in use is that CO2 has no effect on global temperature. This latest evolution is arguably the hardest; most people lack a sufficient working knowledge of chemistry and physics to prove to themselves that the infrared absorption lines of CO2 are dark enough that it doesn't matter if CO2 makes up a relatively small part of our atmosphere even after the recent near-doubling. Be patient, do research of your own, and do not treat them as inferior. Making people feel stupid tends to repel them...yet, ignorance is dangerous, and it must be done.
This should aid you in understanding and help you educate others:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
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Yo-shin
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 20, 2007 - 04:36 AM
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I'll have to say that I've shown some key articles in NationalGeographic or Scientific American to the family I mentioned above. But they seemed impossible to be convinced, as long as they look down upon "those radical science magazines" or the republicants' consensus remained the same. Anyway, science aims to descover facts, but leaves us alone to choose our own value.
However, the famliy do love the nature and care a lot about the environment. So I'm thinking that maybe admiting the fact is not the most essential thing, we could tell such sceptics that developing sustainable energy and changing the habbit of aquandering is good anyway. Getting more people involved seemed to more pragmatic than being trapped in politic issues.
Most Chinese people, I assume, do not totally understand global warming and many of them are not likely to hear about it often. But being frugal has always been our tradition. My grandparents, as an example, save water and electricity more strictly than the NGO brochures' suggest, and they contribute so little carbon dioxide.
And in the countryside, most of the farming is organic. So convincing the whole society might be a long term work, but promoting effective methods or sustainable lifestyle is likely to achive improvement.
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prieten47
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 23, 2007 - 09:59 AM
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I saw Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" yesterday. It had quite a bit of science in it.
The most convincing science was the ice core samples that scientists took and analyzed for Earth CO2 levels over the last 650,000 years. Yes, they can go that far back! They discovered that Earth's CO2 levels were cyclical, varying from highs of 300 parts per million to lows of 180 ppm over that long time period. The shocking information is that today we are measuring 385 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere. That's right, today we have CO2 levels 25% higher than they have ever been in 650,000 years! And the CO2 is expected to continue its climb into the foreseeable future. Over this 650,000 year period, Earth temperatures moved in tandem with CO2 levels.
The naysayers are working overtime to squash this information. "You can't measure CO2 levels in ice core samples!" they say. Or they accuse scientists of skewing information in the 1800's (a time when CO2 measurement was very inaccurate) to show CO2 levels have increased since then.
The man saying you can't measure CO2 levels in ice cores turns out to have published his "findings" in a "scientific" journal put out by the known American fraudster Lyndon LaRouche. It turns out the data that the scientists left out of the 1800's data were obvious error readings like one year being 200 ppm, the next year, 500 ppm CO2 levels. One year swings like that are impossible and should be left out of the data. And who cares about the 1800's anyway? We have the highest CO2 levels ever in 650,000 years right now and it's climbing. WHAT DOES THAT TELL US? We are in deep doo-doo.
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Rajesh
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
June 24, 2007 - 01:39 PM
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Ya I have seen Al Gore movie. How ever, it has political intention but there is many facts. Actually An Inconvenient Truth is a main document to aware people. But we have to see the global warming problem as common, however, developed countries are accusing to the deforestation in the tropics and ignoring their overuse fossil fuels.
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 10, 2007 - 01:27 PM
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kashboy wrote:
The threat is REAL and every one MUST take action.
prove it! just as many scientists agree with global warming as disagree with it.
Concensus doesnt mean proof!
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 10, 2007 - 01:29 PM
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ajay78 wrote:
I happen to be one of the sceptics. I think a lot of this is hype by scientists and others who stand to make a lot of money from research.
It's not that I don't believe that the environment is being destroyed but I think the catastrophies predicted are great exaggerations.
Indeed! there is great political gain via global warming....and great opportunity for power!
Until absolute proof that can be tested and tested over and and over agains becomes available....I will remain sceptical.
Science is not the play ground of concensus, but the despotism of fact.
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 10, 2007 - 01:31 PM
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erioch wrote:
airmail wrote:
I'm a friend of an American family in the south. Reccently I wa surprised to find that they remained sceptical on the global warming issue.
They seemed to have enough proof to question the science I learnt towards global warming and the conversation got "complacted" when it came down on politics. I don't think Al Gore's documentary is gonna help 'cause they were so "republicant".
I was wondering whether you guys have run into some more "stubborn" sceptics.*
How are we supposed to debate and convince them, the most importantly, get them into our environmental process?
It is great for you to have the same concern that others do have. By way of convincing the sckeptics, I believe that what you have done is one of the way to do it. Getting the youth understanding the consequences and proving to these leaders that their is a lot at stake in the isue of Global Warming from a young one will surely make them understand quite clearly where we come from. It was such a relief to learn that President G. Bush had thought of working together with other world leaders on this. This was a step forward and a plus for those with the concern as you. So, what is the way of convincing them? By showing them what we realy think about the issues.******
well, you have done little to convience me! Other than it is a religious fanatic movement.
And yes, lets soliciate the youth....after all, they have wisdom that prevents them from being led. For the sake of honesty, lets not call it "teaching" the youth. instead lets call it what iit is....indoctrination.
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 10, 2007 - 01:33 PM
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wvanbokk wrote:
Different tactics work for different situations.
If you ever encounter someone who has actually been hired by the oil companies for the express purpose of perpetuating their version of the truth, do not engage in debate.
yet this is where it gets tricky, after all, anyone who disagrres with the junk science of global warming is working for the oil companies. what is a person to do?
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: How to debate with global warming sceptics?
September 10, 2007 - 01:37 PM
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prieten47 wrote:
I saw Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" yesterday. It had quite a bit of science in it.
The most convincing science was the ice core samples that scientists took and analyzed for Earth CO2 levels over the last 650,000 years. Yes, they can go that far back! They discovered that Earth's CO2 levels were cyclical, varying from highs of 300 parts per million to lows of 180 ppm over that long time period. The shocking information is that today we are measuring 385 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere. That's right, today we have CO2 levels 25% higher than they have ever been in 650,000 years! And the CO2 is expected to continue its climb into the foreseeable future. Over this 650,000 year period, Earth temperatures moved in tandem with CO2 levels.
The naysayers are working overtime to squash this information. "You can't measure CO2 levels in ice core samples!" they say. Or they accuse scientists of skewing information in the 1800's (a time when CO2 measurement was very inaccurate) to show CO2 levels have increased since then.
The man saying you can't measure CO2 levels in ice cores turns out to have published his "findings" in a "scientific" journal put out by the known American fraudster Lyndon LaRouche. It turns out the data that the scientists left out of the 1800's data were obvious error readings like one year being 200 ppm, the next year, 500 ppm CO2 levels. One year swings like that are impossible and should be left out of the data. And who cares about the 1800's anyway? We have the highest CO2 levels ever in 650,000 years right now and it's climbing. WHAT DOES THAT TELL US? We are in deep doo-doo.
i find it interesting that those who oppose the idea that the science is solid in the pro-global warming movement are the ones considered as the people who squash information. Yet those who believe in the religious global warming movent speak absolute truth.
cant have it both way!
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