Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims! - Discussion Boards

Luke Lieberman

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 24, 2007 - 01:43 PM

ha - Hamid - some of my best friends are Muslims - I am going to get a coffee at my friends Ahmed's cafe shortly -

I am not afriad of Islam -

I simply recognise the dangerious nature of radical Islamic groups - and the blatant double standard Muslims apply to themselves and the rest of the world.

let me ask a simple question - every time a Palestinian dies in the fight with Israel - to you this is a great crime, the ultimate injustice -

yet in the Sudan more than 100 times as many die - and you say nothing - why?

is it because on one hand the victim is a Muslim, and on the other - the victim is a black african and his killer is a muslim?

why are there no major organizations in the Muslim world aimed at stopping the genocide in Darfur? Why has the Arab League sat silently in the face of these atrocities?

can't you see the utter hypocracy?

While I may agree that Kafir blames Islam senselessly -

I certainly do not - but I do hold Islam and muslims responsible for their faults -

you guys always like to paint yourselves the victims of the world -

in some cases you are - but in many instances you are rather the opposite.

Ashraf

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 24, 2007 - 03:41 PM

The Arab league is not only silent about Darfur problem. It is dead silent regarding all issues including the Palestinian problem.

The innocent human lives lost in Palestine are no different than the innocent human lives lost in Darfur or anywhere else. Let this be clear to all of you.

What most people in the west however tend to ignore or forget is that the Palestinian issue is like the heart to the body when it comes to the rest of issues in the Arab and Muslim world. Not only is it related to a country and its displaced people, but it is also related to the very sacred beliefs of Muslims worldwide.

Luke Lieberman

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 24, 2007 - 04:56 PM

then why is there not a single grass roots Islamic organization trying to end the genocide -

forget about the Arab League for a moment - and even countries like Iran who have military ties with the Sudanese government -

but what about simply Islamic organizations - of which there are thousands which protest against the west -

why are there no such organizations to protest the Sudanese government?

The Danish cartoons brought thousands of angry Muslims out on to the street - I have never seen such demonstraitions where the Sudan is concerned -

and just to be clear Palestinian - there ARE western organizations which protest against, for instance, the wall being built by Israel -

there are even Jewish organizations which protest the wall - I have seen these protests even in the streets of New York -

there are also protests against the War in Iraq etc. etc. etc.

But I see no such protest or action in the Muslim world against the Genocide in Darfur, or terrorist attacks against the West - or Ahmadinejad's Hollocaust conference

I could go on - it seems the only thing that gets Muslims up in protest is a perceived slight against Muslims -

there is no effort toward self-reflection or self-critisism but rather a defensive reflex - as Hamid has exhibited in this very thread -

that any critism of Islamic culture is somehow an affront to the religion.

Hamid - I don't have any issue with any religion - I do have a problem with fanatical religious people

ALL of these religious texts have certain laws which are outdated and need modern interpretation

in Judiasm the Talmud states that I should stone someone to death for working on Saterdays -

obviously this is not a law which should be taken litteraly today - it therefore needs a modern interpretation.

largely it is not the Quran itself but rather the archaic manner in which it is interpreted - and the way ideologues and demegogues like Nasrallah and Bin Laden use the book to inspire hatred and violence

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 25, 2007 - 04:28 AM

luke! u know what, muslims are worried of the situation more than u r!

muslims are killed in chechnya, OIC says, russia should stop killing or we will reconsider our relations with it! nonsence, stupids. muslims are killed mercilessly and they say, we will reconsider....

so if islamic organizations are silent of darfur, they ar silent of chechnya, afghanistan, kashmir as well.

indeed every muslim will condmen killing innocent people even if christians,

islam never made any difference by virtue fo color, creed, race... Bilal was a black, salman was persian, but they had a status over other companions of propeht.

after my experience with islamic texts, islam does not need new interpretation, but application of the interpretation made by our pioneers. nowadays, muslims have stoped thinking over international issues, they have stoped dialogue, negotiating different issues, only thinks how to gain interests even by killing thier brothers. so u can blame muslims but not islam.

hope for peace

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Ashraf

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 25, 2007 - 12:05 PM

I know there are western organizations that are lobbying against the wall and I know there are also Jewish organizations which do the same. The question however is: are these efforts enough to safely say they have done their part??. Absolutely not because simply the problems in Palestine and Darfur need alot more than just humanitarian organization to handle them.

And we never said that Muslims are always the victims. There are victims who are Muslims and there are also criminals who are Muslims just like in every race and religion. It just happened that most of these victims nowadays happened to be Muslims.

Matt

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 26, 2007 - 04:41 PM

the palestinian problem is a problem. it is a ethinicity problem first and then religion. Countrys like the UAE and Oman pay alot of money to help the palestinians but the israeli government tries it hardest to block them in... not understanding that by doing this they are just provoking the more extreme palestinians. But can you blame them? i know i would certainly do the same in their position. Sudanese muslims have slaughtered nearly millions of innocent civilians. Who knows what Iran is actually up to in the middle east. They were definately behind Harrir's assasination and behind many more in beirut, they also certainly fund terroist organisations within iraq and afghanistan. The fundementalists within iraq and afghanistan come mainly from pakistan or have origins in pakistan where they are brainwashed to commit the acts they do as i believe no religion is evil but the more i read about islam the more that idea is changing. My mum is a cypriot muslim and my step dad is iranian and so have some knowledge of the religion already but i decided not to become a muslim as i dont believe in what it teaches.

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Luke Lieberman

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 26, 2007 - 05:33 PM

"so if islamic organizations are silent of darfur, they ar silent of chechnya, afghanistan, kashmir as well. "

They are not silent in those areas - there are Islamic militant organizations actively FIGHTING in Chechnya, Afghanistan, Kashmir etc.

There are routinely demonstrations about Kashmir in Pakistan.

"indeed every muslim will condmen killing innocent people even if christians,"

this is obviously not true - suicide bombing against Israeli civilians is supported throughout the muslim world -

as far as Darfur - I guess they must be condemning it silently because I don't hear them.

"islam never made any difference by virtue fo color, creed, race... Bilal was a black, salman was persian, but they had a status over other companions of propeht."

Nonsense - firstly they make the distinction between Dhimmi and Muslims -

- even in the early days they viewed the Europeans as barbarians - hundreds of years ago they also TAUGHT the Europeans slavery and that black africans should be slaves.

but more to the point Hamid - I know Islam as a religion does not preach racism - although it does divide Muslims and non muslims - but in practicality and practice - every culture has racism in it - American, European AND Muslim

Muslims are not exempt from this bane - even WITHIN Islam there are ethnic and sectarian divisions - which are in full display right now in Iraq.

This post was edited on: 2007-04-26 at 05:55 PM by: luke

Luke Lieberman

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 26, 2007 - 05:56 PM

"The question however is: are these efforts enough to safely say they have done their part??"

at least they are trying - the Islamic world has done NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to deal with the genocide in Darfur -

which is a much larger crime then anything happening in Israel with the wall, or Lebannon etc

can you name me ONE thing Islamic peoples or governments have done to stop this genocide?

"It just happened that most of these victims nowadays happened to be Muslims. "

this is simply not true - to begin most Muslims are killed by other Muslims -

it is also true that there are militant Muslim organizations waging war against Hindus, Jews, Christians, Bhuddists - Africans, Europeans, Indians, Americans - you name it.

this idea that Muslims perpetual victims is nonsense that Muslims cry to justify their own actions.

I am sorry - but drawing a cartoon is NOT as great a crime as killing hundreds of thousands of unarmed, innocent people in the Sudan -

one event had the entire Muslim world whipped into a frenzy of violent protest -

As to the other there is only silence - and this is just a fact.

Ashraf

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 26, 2007 - 06:40 PM

I will not speak for any of the governments in the Muslim world because as I said before they -except very few- have done almost zero when it comes to the problems in the Muslim world. But I can certainly speak about Islamic charities which have done some efforts in dealing with the crisis in Darfur. Here is one for you:

Islamic Relief
http://www.islamic-relief.com

and here is another:

WAMY
(World Assembly of Muslim Youth)

and here is a third:
International Islamic Relief Organization
(http://www.iirosa.org/en/)

As I said before, all humanitarian organizations can not change the situation in Darfur but saying Muslims have done nothing about it can be called anything but true

I also totally disagree with your opinion that most Muslims are killed by other Muslims. Do the wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Chechnya ring a bell?

This post was edited on: 2007-04-26 at 07:03 PM by: Palestinian

Luke Lieberman

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 27, 2007 - 07:41 PM

I looked at the links provided - IIRO didn't have anything I could find about Darfur -

their main page focused on the Palestinians - they had something about helping flood victims in the Sudan if you looked hard enough -

but there was nothing along the lines of political opposition to the Sudanese government.

The Islamic Relief website also did not have anything about Sudan on the mainpage of the website - it had Somolia and Palestine

Again these organizations are concerned with occasions where Muslims are the victims - not where they are the victimizers

And these are both relief organizations - they are not political.

No one is suggesting that there are not aid organizations in the Muslim world - of course there are -

The issue here is poltiical - where is the opposition to the Genocidal actions of the Sudanese government?

Why is it that Cartoons will bring violent protest throughout the Muslims world -

while the actions of a Muslim government murdering hundreds of thousands of people and displacing Millions of Refugees -

sees ZERO political opposition, Zero political protest?

"I also totally disagree with your opinion that most Muslims are killed by other Muslims."

it is a statistical fact.

Most of the deaths occuring in Iraq at this point and for the last 2 years have been sectarian in nature -

Most Al Qaeda terrroist attacks are against targets in the Muslim world - as evidenced by the hundreds of militants the Saudis just captured.

Even in the Sudan - many of the victims are Muslims - just African Muslims as opposed to Arabs.

Jordan has killed more Palestinians that Israel has - this is a fact - Black September killed more in one month that Israel has in the last 10 years.

There is Syria's fight with the Muslim Brotherhood - I can go on.

Ashraf

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 28, 2007 - 01:42 AM

This is a direct donation page from Islamic Relief regarding Sudan and the crisis in Darfur:

http://www.islamic-relief.com/submenu/appeal/timeline.htm

IIROSA is one of the largest charity organizations in the Muslim world. I dealt before with it and from experience I can tell you it does distribute donations to Darfur. The same applies to WAMY which is one of the most active charities in the Muslim World. These charities are not political. Non of charities is meant to be political anyway. Charities are for charities.

This post was edited on: 2007-04-28 at 01:57 AM by: Palestinian

Ashraf

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Re: Jihad is obligatory upon Muslims!
April 28, 2007 - 01:50 AM

Regarding the fighting and the killing:

It is the US that ignited this sectarian war we see in Iraq. Iraq was never in this mess even during the rule of Saddam. For just a few days of the war on Iraq tens of thousands of Iraqis died at the hands of Americans. You should not also neglect the sanctions that lasted for about 10 years where one milion Iraqis including children died. Need I remind you of the depleted uranium?. Those are human lives as well.