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siddiqua
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 8, 2007 - 03:16 PM
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[link="http://profiles.takingitglobal.org/intagenous"]
I wonder why Jordan hasnt extened these tight to its former citizens
Jordan needn't "absorb" Palestinians. Palestinians have their own country, only its called israel. We need to rename it.  And make a brand new homeland for the jewish population bang in the middle of usa, and a holiday island in britain.
Coming to a more real solution, the Jews should return the land occupied in '67. Now that, will be a step forward.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 8, 2007 - 04:48 PM
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*laughs* so churchill was an ignorant man? Ever say anything just flat our stupid in your life? Or worse, something taken out of context. I would be interested in see the full statement, speech or whatever that quote was taken from. Its easy to take things out of context when we dont cite our sources.
This racist statement was one out of many that belong to Churchill. What context do you need? He was speaking to hardcore Zionists. Apart from resembling Palestinians to dogs, he is openly saying that what happened to Red Indians and blacks of Australia was not a bad thing. What else do you need to designate a person's racism?
Do we cite sources on these boards? A lot of words are being attributed to Churchill, yet I see no evidence posted that he actually said these words. Al least link a website.
We obviously do. We gave the source where Churchill said that Indians breed like rabbits. Here it is again, if you missed it.
Since you asked about the examples of Churchill's racism with the source, here is another:
We may recall that shortly after, Winston Churchill authorized the use of chemical weapons "against recalcitrant Arabs as experiment," denouncing the "squeamishness" of those who objected to "using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes," mainly Kurds, a policy that he strongly favored, expecting that it "would spread a lively terror." For England itself, he had somewhat different plans. As Home Secretary in 1910 he had secretly proposed sterilization of 100,000 "mental degenerates" and the dispatch of tens of thousands of others to state-run labor camps so as to save the "British race" from inevitable decline if its "inferior" members are allowed to breed -- ideas that were within the bounds of enlightened opinion of the day, but have been kept secret in Home Office files because of their sensitivity, particularly after they were taken up by Hitler.
Do you celebrate Josef Stalin "because of his achievements" in the same war?
A lot of russians do. http://edwardlucas.blogspot.com/2007/07/nashi-sex-camp-shock-horror-latest.html
Well, these Russians you are talking about are as apologetic to Stalin's tyranny as you are to Churchill's racism.
Arslan
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 8, 2007 - 04:49 PM
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and Russia was the first nations to reconize Israel as a State, yet under Stalin may have kiiled more Jews lthan Hitler.
With all his pathological Anti-Semitism, Stalin did not kill more Jews than Hitler. One has to assume that Jews are amnesiac that they consider Hitler-perpetrated Holocaust as the greatest crime while ignoring what Stalin did if what you are saying has an element of truth.
Arslan
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Inga
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 8, 2007 - 04:55 PM
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I feel sorry for the Jews who was killed during the World War II, but I wonder why nobody cares for other nations that were being killed under Stalin and/or Hitler? I mean, everybody condemns the actions of Nazis', but nobody seems to care about Stalin's victims - and there are millions of them
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 8, 2007 - 10:14 PM
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bluequack wrote:
I feel sorry for the Jews who was killed during the World War II, but I wonder why nobody cares for other nations that were being killed under Stalin and/or Hitler? I mean, everybody condemns the actions of Nazis', but nobody seems to care about Stalin's victims - and there are millions of them
Hello Inga,
Good point but we do care about the victims of Stalin. My ancestors suffered at the hands of both monsters--under Stalin by being citizens of the Soviet Union and under Hitler because of his barbaric invasion Operation Barbarossa.
The thing with the Jews, however, their number of killed may be less than Russians under Stalin, but there was an attempt to kill the entire Jewish people. Two-third of Jews in Europe, and one third of the Jews of the world, were murdered by the Nazis, that is why it is a special segment of World War II.
Arslan
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Inga
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 9, 2007 - 06:07 AM
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Arslan,
I see your point, and those numbers are tragedy of course.
However, I don't like double standards - while all the world shouts about Hitler's killings, and Germany pays compensations to the Jews, Russian government doesn't even ADMIT the crimes of Stalin (by the way, his poltics killed many Jews too). People who deny Holocaust are put in prison, while everyone has a right to deny the killings of Soviets. Doesn't seem fair to me...
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 9, 2007 - 01:38 PM
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I agree. This is because victors write the history and play all the game. Germany, unfortunately, is the only country admitting that it has committed genocides twice and paying compensations, at least. It is not only Russia but so are France, Britain, Turkey, the USA, and Japan. Japan is ridiculing books like "Rape of Nanking," and in Britain you have historians like Niall Ferguson claiming that positives that Britain brought to the world far outweighs miseries that it did. Gordon Brown himself claimed that the times when Britain needed to apologize for the crimes of the British Empire should be buried in the past. France made it criminal to deny the Armenian genocide but France itself is in denial. They have committed murderous crimes in North Africa, Madacascar, and Southeast Asia. Far from paying any compensations, they are claiming that their imperialism in those countries were all for good. In the United States, shelves of public libraries are full of books--books published in the 21st century--flatly rejecting that anything wrong was done to Native Americans. While US is going to allow the victims of bombing in Lebanon in 1983 to extract compensation from Iran, the US has no desire whatsoever to pay any reparations to the victims of Central American murderious regimes that it has fully backed at the same time US marines were blown up in Lebanon. Moreover, when the Iranian passenger airplane was shot down by US Navy in 1988, none of the Iranian citizens were compensated by the US. As for Russia, they killed millions when they conquered Central Asia, and more millions during Stalin's tyrannical rule, but ask them what they did? They argue that we, Central Asians, are ungrateful, that we should be thankful that they took us to modernity out of medievalism.
Do you see all the hypocrisy around?
Arslan
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Inga
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 9, 2007 - 02:02 PM
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Yes, unfortunately. And I see too many ignorant people everywhere, refusing to open their minds and see the things they don't want to see. I believe those who doesn't want to admit hypocrisy are hypocrites as well... Anyway, continuing our discussion, I just wonder - do the oppresors REALLY think they are contributing somehow to the nations they oppress?
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 9, 2007 - 02:10 PM
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I bet they do though not always. In some cases, the oppressors just don't care. King Leopold II is in point whose purpose was to extract maximum profit from his enterprise in Congo.
Arslan
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Inga
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 9, 2007 - 02:42 PM
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Yes, Congo Free State is a good example. I believe it was the beginning of cutting hands off, wasn't it? I find it rather funny that so-called "civilized" nations actually gave guns to the "uncivilized" ones and even taught them "creative" ways to kill one another. Well, probably that's what they mean, escaping from medieval times and coming to the modern world...
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 10, 2007 - 01:02 PM
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sidsayed wrote:
[link="http://profiles.takingitglobal.org/intagenous"]
I wonder why Jordan hasnt extened these tight to its former citizens
Jordan needn't "absorb" Palestinians. Palestinians have their own country, only its called israel. We need to rename it. * And make a brand new homeland for the jewish population bang in the middle of usa, and a holiday island in britain. *
Coming to a more real solution, the Jews should return the land occupied in '67. Now that, will be a step forward.*
oh good idea, except, its hard to get around the inconvient truth that palestine never existed. Oh and also, that the palestinian people are from Jordan. Notice that none of the Arab nations offer any help to the palestinians, yet glady take up their cause when it furthers their agenda.
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 10, 2007 - 01:04 PM
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Arslanik wrote:
*laughs* so churchill was an ignorant man? Ever say anything just flat our stupid in your life? Or worse, something taken out of context. I would be interested in see the full statement, speech or whatever that quote was taken from. Its easy to take things out of context when we dont cite our sources.
This racist statement was one out of many that belong to Churchill. What context do you need? He was speaking to hardcore Zionists. Apart from resembling Palestinians to dogs, he is openly saying that what happened to Red Indians and blacks of Australia was not a bad thing. What else do you need to designate a person's racism?
Do we cite sources on these boards? A lot of words are being attributed to Churchill, yet I see no evidence posted that he actually said these words. Al least link a website.
We obviously do. We gave the source where Churchill said that Indians breed like rabbits. Here it is again, if you missed it.
Since you asked about the examples of Churchill's racism with the source, here is another:
We may recall that shortly after, Winston Churchill authorized the use of chemical weapons "against recalcitrant Arabs as experiment," denouncing the "squeamishness" of those who objected to "using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes," mainly Kurds, a policy that he strongly favored, expecting that it "would spread a lively terror." For England itself, he had somewhat different plans. As Home Secretary in 1910 he had secretly proposed sterilization of 100,000 "mental degenerates" and the dispatch of tens of thousands of others to state-run labor camps so as to save the "British race" from inevitable decline if its "inferior" members are allowed to breed -- ideas that were within the bounds of enlightened opinion of the day, but have been kept secret in Home Office files because of their sensitivity, particularly after they were taken up by Hitler.
Do you celebrate Josef Stalin "because of his achievements" in the same war?
A lot of russians do. http://edwardlucas.blogspot.com/2007/07/nashi-sex-camp-shock-horror-latest.html
Well, these Russians you are talking about are as apologetic to Stalin's tyranny as you are to Churchill's racism.
Arslan
unfortuantely for you, the russians are re-writing hisotry...typical
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 10, 2007 - 01:05 PM
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Arslanik wrote:
and Russia was the first nations to reconize Israel as a State, yet under Stalin may have kiiled more Jews lthan Hitler.
With all his pathological Anti-Semitism, Stalin did not kill more Jews than Hitler. One has to assume that Jews are amnesiac that they consider Hitler-perpetrated Holocaust as the greatest crime while ignoring what Stalin did if what you are saying has an element of truth.
Arslan
keep saying that to yourself. Yet Im not surprise of your praise of Stalin.
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Merlyn
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 10, 2007 - 01:49 PM
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intageous wrote:
Arslanik wrote:
and Russia was the first nations to reconize Israel as a State, yet under Stalin may have kiiled more Jews lthan Hitler.
With all his pathological Anti-Semitism, Stalin did not kill more Jews than Hitler. One has to assume that Jews are amnesiac that they consider Hitler-perpetrated Holocaust as the greatest crime while ignoring what Stalin did if what you are saying has an element of truth.
Arslan
keep saying that to yourself. Yet Im not surprise of your praise of Stalin.
Understand this.
Palestinians are human beings whether you agree with or not. Palestine was a state, whether officially recognized as such or no (its all matter of definition and remember there was no Israel or in other words a Jewish state before 48: thus Israel as less claim over lands than Palestine, considering also that Palestinians remained majority on those lands till droven away to Jordan by Israelis).
And no, Stalin caused far more deaths than Hitler could have dreamed of. A current estimate puts death toll caused directly or indirectly by Stalin in the period of around 15 years to almost 30 million in 30s and 40s. Death toll of Hitler runs in the most exaggerate case to 15 million, including 6 million Jews.
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Slick Frenzy
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
September 10, 2007 - 02:17 PM
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Palestinians are human beings whether you agree with or not. Palestine was a state, whether officially recognized as such or no (its all matter of definition and remember there was no Israel or in other words a Jewish state before 48: thus Israel as less claim over lands than Palestine, considering also that Palestinians remained majority on those lands till droven away to Jordan by Israelis).
And no, Stalin caused far more deaths than Hitler could have dreamed of. A current estimate puts death toll caused directly or indirectly by Stalin in the period of around 15 years to almost 30 million in 30s and 40s. Death toll of Hitler runs in the most exaggerate case to 15 million, including 6 million Jews.
no one will argue taht palestinian are human beings...and have a right to exist. the same can not be said for Israel...who is constantly threated to be wiped off the face of the earth.
Unless you think her Arab neighbors are kidding...and therefore have zero credibility?
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