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Udara
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Are Palestinians human beings?
April 3, 2007 - 07:19 PM
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The racism of western leaders had been always overlooked by the majority of western historians. I found the following comment of Churchill very interesting: This is his comments regarding palestine.
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"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
'Sir' Winston Churchill
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And they still call this dude a "Sir"
The history does wierd things, it makes heroes of racists.
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al-kafir
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 3, 2007 - 08:18 PM
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udara2004 wrote:
The racism of western leaders had been always overlooked by the majority of western historians. I found the following comment of Churchill very interesting: This is his comments regarding palestine.
=====================
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
'Sir' Winston Churchill
======================
And they still call this dude a "Sir"
The history does wierd things, it makes heroes of racists.
"Palestinians" are not a race.
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Udara
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 02:00 AM
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Does it even matter or relevent?
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Udara
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 02:39 AM
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,801968,00.html
In 1937 Winston Churchill said of the Palestinians: 'I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance that a great wrong has been done to the red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place'. That set the trend for the Israeli state's attitude towards Palestinians. In 1969, Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir said: 'Palestinians do not exist'. Her successor, Prime Minister Levi Eshkol, said: 'What are Palestinians? When I came here [to Palestine] there were 250,000 non-Jews, mainly Arabs and Bedouins. It was desert, more than underdeveloped. Nothing'. Prime Minister Menachem Begin called Palestinians 'two-legged beasts'. Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir called them 'grasshoppers' who could be crushed. This is the language of heads of state, not the words of ordinary people.
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I
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R Kahendi
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 06:04 AM
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======================
"Palestinians" are not a race.
=======================
@ al-kafir: perhaps palestinians are not, strictly speaking, a race, but those remarks being attributed to winston et al are racist. that is evident when you consider the context in which they are being made. if i am not wrong, the palestinians are being defined in opposition to jews or to europeans in that statement.
@ udara2004: this is a very pertinent subject. in answer to your question, palestinians are human beings. (but i do understand that you're asking a larger question.)
history is indeed interesting.
it says alot about us that we continue to celebrate these people as our heroes in the present day.
This post was edited on: 2007-04-04 at 06:09 AM by: bumbuwazed
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Khalid
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 08:57 AM
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a unique and imbigous question!
yes, they are human beings, and must be allowed to enjoy thier human rights. which are available to every human beings without any discrimination on the basis of cast, color, cread, culture, political or social opinion and background.
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Angie
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 10:06 AM
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Are Palestinians human beings?
Of course they're human beings..I feel angered by that statement from Winston Churchill..how dare he have suggested that Palestinians have no right to exist..every mortal soul has a right to exist..
What an ignorant man he was!
This post was edited on: 2007-04-04 at 10:10 AM by: shorty667
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Udara
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 10:41 AM
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Yes, my question is on a rather large scale level to expose the hypocrisy of the so called civlized west and their racist attitudes towards non-whites for the last 50 years.
Thanks guys for feedback, do keep the discussion moving.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 12:36 PM
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shorty667 wrote:
Are Palestinians human beings?
Of course they're human beings..I feel angered by that statement from Winston Churchill..how dare he have suggested that Palestinians have no right to exist..every mortal soul has a right to exist..*
What an ignorant man he was!
This post was edited on: 2007-04-04 at 10:10 AM by: shorty667
Well, this greatest Briton of all times, not only says that Palestinians were "dogs" eating from a "manger" and thus do not have any right for that, but he sees nothing wrong with the extermination of tens of millions of indigenous peoples in the Americas and Australia.
Arslan
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Ajay Kamalakaran
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 12:44 PM
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Arslanik wrote:
shorty667 wrote:
Are Palestinians human beings?
Of course they're human beings..I feel angered by that statement from Winston Churchill..how dare he have suggested that Palestinians have no right to exist..every mortal soul has a right to exist..*
What an ignorant man he was!
This post was edited on: 2007-04-04 at 10:10 AM by: shorty667
Well, this greatest Briton of all times, not only says that Palestinians were "dogs" eating from a "manger" and thus do not have any right for that, but he sees nothing wrong with the extermination of tens of millions of indigenous peoples in the Americas and Australia.
Arslan
Winston Churchill was one of the worst racists of all time.
After the Great Bengal Famine of 1943, which was caused by the British, Churchill remarked that the number of deaths didn't matter as "Indians would breed like rabbits."
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Udara
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 02:43 PM
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ajay78 wrote:
Arslanik wrote:
shorty667 wrote:
Are Palestinians human beings?
Of course they're human beings..I feel angered by that statement from Winston Churchill..how dare he have suggested that Palestinians have no right to exist..every mortal soul has a right to exist..*
What an ignorant man he was!
This post was edited on: 2007-04-04 at 10:10 AM by: shorty667
Well, this greatest Briton of all times, not only says that Palestinians were "dogs" eating from a "manger" and thus do not have any right for that, but he sees nothing wrong with the extermination of tens of millions of indigenous peoples in the Americas and Australia.
Arslan
Winston Churchill was one of the worst racists of all time.
After the Great Bengal Famine of 1943, which was caused by the British, Churchill remarked that the number of deaths didn't matter as "Indians would breed like rabbits."
Thanks Ajay for sharing this, the atrocities the British had done against Indians will exceed any limits of humaninty.
Hats off to great indians like Gandhiji for overcoming such a brutal British force through power of love and kindness. These concepts of Gandhi are extremely hard to understand to the cowboy like Americans thesedays.
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Dennis Nyakundi Onguti
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 02:54 PM
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Well, this seem a very hot wire to touch. In history, at least those who have done world history, somethings were ever done or said that when we look at them we wonder how those who were there then could stand them. For one we are more aware of the dignity of every human being regardless of race, color of their skin, sex and status than the past generations. My friends from Latin America if given opportunity can say how brutal their colonialists were in their determination to wipe out completely the natives. What of those who thought that an African had no soul that they deserved no baptism? I remember a joke that is said of a missionary who was baptising an African and said "If you have a soul, i baptise you in the name...." Can we condemn them? This is another time of history. We can only stand strongly if this sentiments are made manifest in this century.
Sad enough, they are there. I remember of a good friend of mine from Italy who told me once that in my home we dont have house with doors and windows. We look out when it is dawn throgh the crack on the mud walls. I smiled and said "if children in my village see you, they will think you are a big infant because of your skin."
Let us think beyong our time, village and mentality as young people is all i can say.
Thanks for this issue.
This post was edited on: 2007-04-04 at 02:57 PM by: denyak2
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 03:10 PM
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To give a bigger portrait of Churchill, in 1910, he secretly recommended to sterilize a hundred thousand "degenerates" in order to "save" the British race. Eight years later, he would not understand the "squiemishness" about "using poisonous gas against uncivilized tribes" (like Kurds and Afghans), against "recalcitrant Arabs as an experiment."
As for his general attitudes towards India, whose hero Ghandi, Churchill called a "half-naked fakir," see here.
Speaking at the Albert Hall three months later, he claimed that "to abandon India to the rule of the Brahmins (who in his view dominated the Congress party) would be an act of cruel and wicked negligience". If the British left, "India will fall back quite rapidly through the centuries into the barbarism and privations of the Middle Ages".
When, in March 1941, Amery expressed his "anxiety about the growing cleavage between Moslem and Hindu, Churchill "at once said: `Oh, but that is all to the good'" because it would help the British stay a while longer).
An entry of September 1942 in the Amery diaries reads: "During my talk with Winston he burst out with: `I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion'." A year later, when the question of grain being sent to the victims of the Bengal famine came up in a Cabinet meeting, Churchill intervened with a "flourish on Indians breeding like rabbits and being paid a million a day by us for doing nothing by us about the war."
On August 4, 1944, after four years of suffering these outbursts, Amery wrote that "I am by no means sure whether on this subject of India he (Churchill) is really quite sane ... ". To this let me append the comment of Lord Wavell, who as Viceroy of India between 1943 and 1945, likewise had much to do with Churchill. In his diary, Wavell concluded that the British Prime Minister "has a curious complex about India and is always loth to hear good of it and apt to believe the worst".
Ramachandra Guha is an author and historian based in Bangalore.
E-mail him at: ramguha@vsnl.com
Arslan
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Merlyn
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 04:29 PM
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To please Al-kafir:
You talk here about Churchill and his racist views of Palestinians. Churchill was a latecomer on the stage of famous and worshipped western leaders with such racist attitudes. Don't forget his forerunners such as Abraham Lincoln and George Washington and their treatement of native americans. Up to this day these two are venerated by everyone ignorant enough to only see what they want to see. Anyone caring to look a bit deeper will find things a bit disturbing such as the infamous Trail of Tears and other mass massacres committed by several of first American presidents.
Apparently, we all know the influence Lincoln exerted on the thought-set of Churchill...
A telling sign...
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jessievanm
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Re: Are Palestinians human beings?
April 4, 2007 - 05:07 PM
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i believe that churchill was wrong in everything he said about palestinians not being a "race," by which he apparently meant that they were not really a group of people. he is celebrated because of his achievements in the war - not because he was a nice guy, which he was clearly not. he was an ass.
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