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Alma Kosmo
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Lies killed communism
January 5, 2007 - 06:49 PM
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Most people now see communism as a bad thing. But, please, tell me why ?
Tell me if I am wrong but communism is sharing of wealth of a country. Is it so bad to share ?
Most people say communism is dictatorship .. I don't think so. Communism has never existed, so don't show me examples of CCCP (USSR), China, Cuba, ... Because in the real life, politics never wants to share with the people and they say "we are communist" .. Really ? I think a communist society does not need gouvernement.
Open your eyes ! What does capitalism want ? It wants to kill us, because we are not important but who works ? who gives to feed for "big people" .. It is the people, and how do "big people" thank them ? In killing them, in leting them die .. Why ? Because they have no money, they did not work so much !? And politicians, do they work ? They make mafia, is that a work ? .. E verybody can do mafia .. You know if I want, tomorrow I make mafia, no problems, I can find people, I know what to do .. But for the moment I decided not to do it .. Why ? .. Anyway I don't know .. I'd be able to earn a lot of money, to become a "big people", and after that ?
A day, I heard .. Cannibalism let its place to capitalism, when the man noticed it'll be more interesting to take advantage of his fellow man than to eat him !
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 5, 2007 - 08:01 PM
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"Most people now see communism as a bad thing. But, please, tell me why ?"
I think it was the 5 hour lines for milk.
"communism is sharing of wealth of a country."
This is an extreme simplification.
Capticalism concentriates power into the hands of a few -
Communism concentraites that power into the hands of ever fewer - the party and the dictator in control of it.
The Party controls what job opportunities are open to you - so much of your work life is determined for you - you cannot follow your dreams or passions.
I know you think "this is not real communism" because you just read the manifesto and think it is possible to have a society without any kind of gvoernment to make any kind of descisions -
this is a pipe dream.
it does destribute wealth evenly - but tends to make everyone equally poor.
Wealth must be CREATED, created by hard work and inginuity - and people must be motivated to create it.
why should I work hard if I will get the same benefit as my neighbor no matter if I am lazy or hardworking??
People who directly experience the fruits of their labor are much more likely to labor.
Communism also encouraged conformity of thought - there is no benefit for inginuity, creativity or think outside the box.
Captislism by contrast encourages thinking outside the box - invention, innovation and entrepenourship.
"I think a communist society does not need gouvernement. "
every society needs a government - it is niave to think otherwise.
"What does capitalism want ?" Capitalsim is not a person or diety - it does not have desires.
Communism has worked on a limited scale in small communities - like Kubbutz in Israel -
but when it is applied to a large society it collapses over time.
This post was edited on: 2007-01-05 at 08:02 PM by: luke
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Pap-sy
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My own view 'bout Communism
January 6, 2007 - 06:20 AM
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Well, to me communism is supposed to be something which is supposed to be beneficial to the members of a certain community. Intra-communism entails every member of that community being in one accord, and working well for the individual development and communual development of every member of that community. Inter-communism entails two different communities working together with the sole aim of bettering their individual communities.
But so sad to say, Political Juganos have twined these wise idea into a vague idea, they have entrenched into the minds of their communities ideas which lack unity, love, peace and togetherness. In same political phase, communism can be beneficial if done within i.e intra but when it is inter-communism, it then turns to something else, because each community vyes for power and control over other communities so that hatred therefore exists between communities which gives communism another different definition entirely.
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Alma Kosmo
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 6, 2007 - 07:36 AM
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I agree with you, amromanor.
But don't forget all that, it is because of politics. Politicians always want more and more power. Look, Bush, he is one of the best examples. So you see this is the same with capitalism. Look (I think you're from Nigeria) colonization, this was not because of communism but this was because of advantages capitalism needed. Capitalism always wants more and more. For example, in my country, all industries go to China, India, ... Why ? To earn again more money but they are already rich here !!!
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addi
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 6, 2007 - 08:57 AM
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I m getting a good chance to learn more about Communism and Capitalism....
Do you think in China there is kind of Communism....and in America its kind of Capitalism.....????
Who you think is gonna survive for longer.....and on the right track of progress....America or China....???
America has influenced the minds of the world while China is taking over the market share....!!!!
I dont know this makes sense in this discussion or not but...
I look forward to learn more from this discussion..!!
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Alma Kosmo
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 6, 2007 - 04:41 PM
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I agree with all what you said !
But I don't know if China is really a communist country, I mean it looks more like a kind of dictatorship that says "we are communists". Well I've never been to China, but in seeing a bit about China at TV and in books, I can see cities as Shangai, Peking, ... that looks like american cities, even here in Europe, we don't have such cities but next to them you can see farmers who looks still like in the Mao's time. For them nothing changed ! Communism does not want to favour a certain part of the people.
Next to that, you've the international market, because I think capitalist world needs it, needs to take advantages of others and China is in this market.
About America ? I find it is maybe the best example of capitalism, anyway, look in american politics, you have choice between democrats or republicans but both are typical capitalists, so in America, it is a bit 100´% capitalism. And look, America always show us, their good life, the american dream, but do you think all americans live an american dream ? NO, there are a lot of poor people there but it is beter to hidde them.
You're also right. American mind is everywhere now. But is it a good, right mind ? I don't think so, and that is a good thing you talk about that because most people think communism kills the personnality, originality, ... it wants all like it decides. That's wrong that's because all politics said "we are communist", were anyway dictatorship. American mind is the "shopping's mind", that maybe looks a bit funny but let's think about ! Capitalism wants everybody have the same mind. Look, what we can see at tv, in advertissements, ... That wants to make us all in the same mind, so it is easier to keep people like a flock of kind sheeps. If people now stop to consume, what will become capitalism ? I know now in our minds it looks impossible to live without consuming.
Communism just asks all people agree to take part in the life of communauty.
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FaerieGirl
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 6, 2007 - 05:49 PM
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Lies kill it all.
Communism is the most clear example for all of us today because, as it has been stated enough times, victors and majorities are the ones to make history; however, sadly, Communism is not the only thing to have been killed by these lies. Look at other systems, like Capitalism. Unfair initial conditions have created the imparities we can see today: while one man has enough money to have his personal nuclear arsenal, there are children who are born in places where the conditions can't keep them from dying before they are one week old. Wow, a great benefit for the World?
I am not saying Capitalism or Communism are bad - I just think that saying lies killed only one is absolutely arbitrary and little self-conscious. I don't think the ones who 'invented' any wanted such imparities, did they?
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Alma Kosmo
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 6, 2007 - 06:10 PM
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You're right !
But what I meant in saying "Lies killed communism" is now most people see communism as a bad thing because people (most capitalist politicians) showed all bad things of communism but all those bad things were not because of the communism but because of a "crazy politician", a dictatorship. Most things people tell about communism to prove communism is a bad thing are lies. That's what I meant in saying that.
Of course, we can tell lies about capitalism but I think we can find arguments enough against capitalism withouth saying lies but of course communism has certainly its fauls, but what, who is perfect ?
I don't want to "kill" capitalism. You know I live well, fortunetaly I am born here, in Belgium, I can have a good life. Maybe I should thank capitalism but I don't think so.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 7, 2007 - 12:44 PM
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"America has influenced the minds of the world while China is taking over the market share....!!!! "
China is growing but the US is still by far the bigger economy.
China is not purely communist - it is a sythesis of communism and capitalism. They have private companies, the sort of cherry pick the elements of capitalism that they like.
"most people see communism as a bad thing because people (most capitalist politicians) showed all bad things of communism"
EVERY country which has adopted communism has suffered a very poor economy -
dozens of countries have tried imposing communism - it has never worked in any of them.
It is not realistic to think the kind of communism you are talking about CAN be created in the real world.
and the reason people don't like it is because it has a massive record of failure.
go to the Ukraine right now and ask them why they hate communism? Is it because of capitalist politicians - or the Ukranian experience under Communism?
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FaerieGirl
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 8, 2007 - 12:51 AM
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luke wrote:
EVERY country which has adopted communism has suffered a very poor economy
I don't think we should really touch that point - we could end up in a never-ending discussion on whether communist countries fall because of the flawed nature of the system itself or because of the lack of tolerance of the capitalist majority that still imposed its market.
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prieten47
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 8, 2007 - 05:29 AM
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FaerieGirl wrote:
luke wrote:
EVERY country which has adopted communism has suffered a very poor economy
I don't think we should really touch that point - we could end up in a never-ending discussion on whether communist countries fall because of the flawed nature of the system itself or because of the lack of tolerance of the capitalist majority that still imposed its market.
I think this touches on the reason frequently given for Cuba's disastrous economic performance. It would be truly paradise on earth, if only America wouldn't boycott Cuba's economy and allow free trade... You know, I don't recall reading anywhere in Marx's Communist Manifesto that communism will only work if you live next to a large capitalist country which will allow you to trade freely with it.
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prieten47
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 8, 2007 - 08:08 AM
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My thoughts on communism: it is great, if you have a group of dedicated people committed to making it succeed. I’m thinking of some small communities which work toward a common goal, like Kibbutzes and a few other successful communes. Unfortunately, most communes only last one generation (or never get off the drawing board), as the young idealists get families and begin to see clearly the distinction between “mine” and “everyone’s.” Capitalism isn’t an ideology, I think it is the basic human instinct of self-interest. It is human nature. Communism is an interesting theory that has failed, usually disastrously, whenever it has been tried on a national level. Countless millions (estimates for just the Soviet Union range up to 100 million and estimates for those in Red China, up to 30 million) have died in enforced collectivization efforts, from other economic mismanagement and outright political persecution. It has taken Red China decades to overcome the disastrous legacy of the so-called “Great Leap Forward” in the early 1960’s and the later “Cultural Revolution.” Having finally jettisoned communist theory and adopted capitalistic economics, Red China’s economy is growing by leaps and bounds, but still lags far behind Taiwan in per capita GNP and will probably never catch up. Having a communist revolution in your country is about the same as being hit by an asteroid. Venezuela’s President Chavez wants to finance his socialism with petrodollars. I didn’t find that in Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto, either, but maybe it might work as long as the oil keeps flowing.
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Alma Kosmo
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 8, 2007 - 01:53 PM
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Right !! Capitalism is not an ideology, just a basic instinct !
But I sometimes have the impression people don't like ideologies .. I think most people have a brain but don't really use it. Capitalism is the easier politic system, if we can call it like this. Capitalism is just characterized by the search of advantages. It does not care about the society, the people.
I think now in east europe, some youngs want to live like us, here in west europe or in america. They want an easy life. Yes, they'll live beter here but for how many time again ?
There are less and less workers but who is the basic of society ? Don't we need them for our society ? I find workers are forgotten by our society. Now they go to find workers in China, Thailand, ... But when Chineses'll live like us, how will they do ?
Communism is an ideology of the life in society but to be applied correctly, I think the first thing it needs is everybody agrees with it. Prieten said right !
(By the way, Prieten, how is Romania ?  )
This post was edited on: 2007-01-08 at 03:12 PM by: Almaa
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Alma Kosmo
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 8, 2007 - 03:14 PM
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Pyramid of capitalism :
http://www.erzwiss.uni-hamburg.de/Personal/Lohmann/Materialien/capyr.htm
Funny pics about capitalism :
http://www.under.ch/SansTitre/Archives/Archives.Frame.htm
This post was edited on: 2007-01-08 at 03:26 PM by: Almaa
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FaerieGirl
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Re: Lies killed communism
January 8, 2007 - 06:16 PM
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I think that, as ideologies, all of them rock. Capitalism, socialism and any other economic or political doctrine you want to include in the list would, in the end, lead to the same in a perfect society. In real communism, everyone's needs would be satisfied and the work would be fair; in capitalism, everyone would have equal opportunities at the beginning and the wealth would be distributed evenly -if not equally- in the community.
Now, when it comes to practice... I think all systems are flawed. The only reason why I stick to the 'left wing' is simply that I do believe rather in social justice than in individual one.
Question of tastes.
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