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basz
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Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 01:19 AM
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Over the centuries, just about any border has been settled by either diplomatic agreements or plain fighting over it. That raises a few questions to me, sprouting from the following: "Is warfair a legitimate way of settling things?"
If yes, then aren't militant separatists all over the world engaged in a legitimate process? Why should it be condemned that 'the army' is fighting 'the rebels'? If war is an accepted process, does that mean the human suffering and casualties are mere side-effects? Isn't warfair a degradation of humanity, instead of a tool?
If no, then who decides what should become of an area or a people? Who decides which country has a right to excist and which one doesn't? So many areas in countries all over the world fight for independence, using peaceful and/or agressive ways. Who should they aim their 'lobby' at? The country(ies) of which they are a part today? Those do seem to have the right and power to decide upon the case. But how was that power established? Who started that country, anyway? Borders have shifted before, and not exactly on a small scale. Countries are rather relative and boundaries subject to change. In this perspective one might wonder: wouldn't 'Global Gettingalong' benefit from the founding of a few new countries?
(Just a few thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate someone else's thoughts on anything in this post.)
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 03:33 AM
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is war fair - what an absurd question
of course not - at all - fair has nothing to do with it.
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FEMI DUROJAYE
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 03:57 AM
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Since war does not promote peace then its of no use,"It is better to judge jaw than to war war"
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Merlyn
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 06:16 AM
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basz wrote:
If yes, then aren't militant separatists all over the world engaged in a legitimate process?
If no, then who decides what should become of an area or a people?
(Just a few thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate someone else's thoughts on anything in this post.)
The question itself must be reformulated. What do you mean by "Is war fair?". Fair for whom? Nothing can be fair for everyone. There is always some dissenters.
I gather you are a biologist. Then you should understand the role that wars have played in the history of humanity. Wars played the same role the nature plays towards the sick and the weak. Wars purged countries of their weak; wars sometimes eliminated or displaced entire nations.
But then again, wars were the driving force behind the civilization as we see it now. The mastering of iron brought forth the development of warfare and its means, alongside industries which had to support this warfare.
According to some estimates, one of the most important inventions in the human history which totally transformed the face of humanity was the gunpowder (in China).
One last thing. As a biologist you should know better that the human evolution has stopped, since some time now, due to many artificial ways of preserving lifes of those who would have otherwise not survived. Wars are there to keep check on the artificially increasing human populations... Afterall, the great Darwin himself was inspired by the work of Malthus - Essay on Population, in exactly this context, when he wrote his famous On the Origin of Species.
This post was edited on: 2006-12-19 at 06:18 AM by: elemental
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KUSHERKI
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 06:21 AM
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War is a CRIME against HUMANITY............WE should preach peacefull co-existance and be our brother keeper.....We dont need war rather we clamour for P>E>A>C>E
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 01:47 PM
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luke wrote:
is war fair - what an absurd question
of course not - at all - fair has nothing to do with it.
Is war on terror unfair, Luke?
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 03:10 PM
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fair to who?
take WW2 - fighting it was necissary - but fair??
for that matter the whole object of war is to have the advantage - it has nothing to do with a fair fight - you want overwhelming superiority and to win quickly with the fewest casualties.
I think a better question is - is war Just.
the answer is - it depends on the war and what side you are on.
I the easiest example - if you are the Nazis no - if you are the Allies yes.
but even then - war is so complicated that individual acts can be unjust even if you are on the right side.
I think the War on Terrorism is a Just Cause - but do not consider all of the actions taken in the pursuit of this war to be Just.
often it comes down to tactics, and there is never going to be a situation where you have thousands of men under arms - where a few of those men will not take advantage of the situation.
also - it depends on what you consider the "War on Terror"
I think the war in Iraq was a diversion from the War on Terror -
the war in Iraq was really more of a War against the Baathists.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 03:48 PM
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A very reasonable answer!
Arslan
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basz
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 09:09 PM
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Dear people, thank you very much for your replies. I think it's safe to say my question was badly phrased. But beyond that, I feel there's still much to consider. I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to justify any kind of violence. Indeed am I from a corner of the world that has been priviledged when it comes to avoiding conflicts recently, so I hope not to offend anyone by the questions I ask in this thread. But if all humans want to live in peace, then where does all the fighting come from? Is it the nature of mankind to be this violent?
luke:
I'm glad people could inspire you to give a less cramped up judgement than an easy 'what an absurd question - of course not'. Let there be no mistake that I do not approve of any kind of political or ethnical violence. But there has to be more to it than just condemnation. I can't imagine any party going to war without believing it's the right thing to do (or the least bad) and still it's very widespread today.
"I think a better question is - is war Just.
the answer is - it depends on the war and what side you are on." That covers the involved, so is (predictably) subjective. But how how about the rest of the world? Should war be considered a legitimate tool of getting your way?
femmynet:
If war does not promote peace, then would this mean there are people who don't strive for peace? Don't all people wish to live in peace? Even the ones who resort to violence? Isn't it possible that they are thinking this is the way for them to accomplish 'their' peace?
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basz
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 09:11 PM
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elemental:
You're definately right about the question being badly formulated. Thanks for seeing trough that and looking into the essence of the question instead. Indeed am I aware that war played a crucial part in the forming of the world as it excists today. That's what the triggered the question if fighting a war is a legitimate human feature.
I certainly do not think that the human evolution has stopped. For starters, because evolution is a process that can't really be registered in such a short interval of time. It's not merely a continuous adaptation to changing environments. During periods of 'good circumstances' the population will explode, which is currently the case. However, I presume you meant that its main mechanism - natural selection, has been increasingly ineffective? To that I fully agree. With time new criteria of fitness will occur. But is it a war's hidden function to replace this? It sounds somewhat self-destructive.
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prieten47
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Re: Is war fair?
December 19, 2006 - 11:56 PM
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At the risk of changing the subject, has anyone looked at the videos on www.ajcongress.com? There are interviews with Hezbollah fighters captured by Israel during their recent brief war in Lebanon. The fighters are very frank about their tactics of hiding Hezbollah facilities in civilian buildings, of using civilian cars to move their troops, even flying white flags of truce while transporting their weapons from town to town, residential house porches are "ideal" places to fire missles at Israel, and so on.
Is it "fair" to cry about civilian casualties in Lebanon when Hezbollah so brazenly uses civilians as shields? I think terrorists and their supporters are always the first to squawk about "fairness," while they themselves engage in atrocities. I feel sorry for the civilians. Maybe when the Hezbollah moves into their apartment building, the civilians should move out and as far away as possible. If they don't want to be shields, they should leave...
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Is war fair?
December 20, 2006 - 12:29 AM
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prieten47,
Your link does not open. It didn't work in my case. Do you have an alternative link to the videos you are talking about?
Yes, it is fair to cry about Lebanese civilian casualties when you find more cluster bombs in Southern Lebanon than people.
Arslan
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Is war fair?
December 20, 2006 - 02:12 AM
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I am not comfortable with the use of cluster bombs -
but Arslan I have read artcles by civilians in southern Lebannon who said they tried to tell Hezbullah to take the rockets off their lawns
Hezbullah answered by firing on them and telling them to get inside.
it is a very logical tactic because either Israel has to hesitate, leave them alone, or suffer international condemnation for killing civilians.
meanwhile those missils they are firing from someone's porch are being shot at random into towns in Northern Israel.
it again illustraites the point - war has nothing to do with fairness.
"Should war be considered a legitimate tool of getting your way?"
the short answer is no - but it is a reality.
for one thing if your enemies are preparing for war you had better do the same.
it is not always a choice - the English did not exactly have much of a choice when the Nazis started bombing them.
something that makes this even more complicated is that - taking the WW2 example, the Europeans would have been far wiser to recognise Hitler for the threat that he was and stopped him BEFORE he built his arsinal and BEFORE he started attacking his neighbors.
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prieten47
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Re: Is war fair?
December 20, 2006 - 11:15 PM
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Dear Arslanik, sorry, that link should have read:
www.ajcongress.org
Dear Luke, I wonder if the free countries had shown Hitler a little resistance in the early thirties, people would have argued, "You are just helping the Nazis recruit more people to their cause." I guess it is in the nature of democracies to try everything first, i.e., wishful thinking, until they are confronted with an attack and respond in kind.
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hekatea
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Re: Is war fair?
January 1, 2007 - 09:12 AM
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The only war I am supporting is the WAR AGAINST POVERTY AND DISCRIMINATION!
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