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Luke Lieberman
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Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 11, 2006 - 11:56 AM
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with such scholars as former KKK member David Duke this should be really enlightening -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1964838,00.html
"Iran announced yesterday details of a conference questioning whether the Holocaust really happened, prompted by an international outcry a year ago when President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad described the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis as "myth" fabricated to justify Israel.
The foreign ministry said "intellectuals and researchers" from 30 countries - including Britain - would attend Studying the Holocaust: An international view, in Tehran on Monday and Tuesday.
The idea for the gathering was dismissed earlier this year as "shocking, ridiculous and stupid" by Tony Blair. Iran responded by inviting him to attend.
Participants will consider documentary, pictorial, physical and demographic evidence in what Iranian officials depict as an academic investigation to establish the Holocaust's authenticity and whether the reported number of victims was exaggerated. Organisers say it will include submissions for and against. It will also focus on the plight of the Palestinians.
The conference will have six panel discussions and an open forum. It will discuss the capacity of Nazi death camps and the impact of the second world war on other national and ethnic groups. Iranian officials say Jewish suffering is played up at the expense of other victims. Manouchehr Mohammadi, the foreign ministry's research and education officer, said the conference was intended as a platform for open discussion of the Holocaust, which Iran claims is denied in the west.
"Our aim is to scientifically study the Holocaust and listen to both sides before reaching a conclusion," Mr Mohammadi said. "This issue has a crucial role regarding the west's policies towards the countries of the Middle East, especially the Palestinians. Iran isn't against or for. We weren't involved in this event so we can be a neutral judge. It is important for us to know the answer so that we can process our stances to issues in this region. If we conclude that the Holocaust happened, we will admit it but we are still going to ask why Palestinians have to pay." He said it would not be a forum for anti-semites or neo-Nazis, and rabbis would attend. "Our policy doesn't mean we want to defend the crimes of Hitler."
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 11, 2006 - 12:01 PM
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"Mr Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and has said its inhabitants should go to Europe or Alaska.
Michael Rosen, of the Community Security Trust, which works to safeguard Jews in Britain, said he was aware of the event but that it was not clear who was planning to attend from the UK. Karen Pollock, of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said: "To hold a state-sponsored conference questioning the truth of the Holocaust is not only deeply disturbing but a huge insult to Holocaust survivors and the families of Holocaust victims."
hmmm. "We weren't involved in this event so we can be a neutral judge."
neutral judge... right, Iran definately seems "neutral" in this debate.
because Germany, England, Russia, France, Poland, the Jews themselves - you know the ones who actually lived through it, whose lands it actually transpired on -
they don't know what happened and obviously they need Ahmadinejad to figure it out for them - we can trust him to discover the truth ; - )
cause he's so "neutral"
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 11, 2006 - 12:05 PM
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Interesting though that in their painstaking efforts to make this a 'balanced' conference - the Iranians banned this man from participating -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2497895,00.html
Holocaust deniers ban dissenting voice
An outspoken Palestinian lawyer was hoping to challenge Holocaust deniers during a provocative conference that opens in Iran today. The international gathering will question whether six million Jews were actually slaughtered by the Nazis in the Second World War.
But yesterday Khaled Kasab Mahameed learnt from the Iranian Foreign Ministry — which had invited him to speak — that he would not receive a visa. No reason was given.
Mr Mahameed suspects that it was because he has an Israeli passport. It may also have been because he has made clear what he intended to say.
“I’m bitterly disappointed,” Mr Mahameed, who studied at a British university, told The Times. He was seeking a personal audience with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian President, to tell him that denials or questioning of “such huge, monstrous horror” harmed the Palestinian cause.
Mr Mahameed lives in Israel, where he has established the Arab Institute for Holocaust Research and Education, the Arab world’s first Holocaust museum, in Nazareth. He believes that the “study, analysis and acknowledgement” of the Holocaust by Arabs is important for a durable peace between the Palestinians and Israel. “It’s not enough to curse these Holocaust deniers as foolish. We have to convince them the Holocaust did happen,” Mr Mahameed said.
His attendance at the meeting in Tehran may have given credibility to claims by Iranian officials that the conference would not be a forum for anti-Semites or neo-Nazis.
“For 60 years talking about the Holocaust was a crime in the West, but now there is a serious debate about the Holocaust in the media and also in political and popular meetings,” Mr Ahmadinejad said at the weekend. “Even some Western politicians have declared that the original foundation of the Zionist regime was a mistake,” he added.
Mr Ahmadinejad has faced domestic opposition to his inflammatory remarks about the Holocaust, which Iranian reformists and conservative pragmatists believe are damaging their country.
Mohammad Khatami, his reformist predecessor, declared earlier this year: “We should speak out if even a single Jew is killed.” He went on to insist that the Holocaust should be recognised “even if this historical reality has been misused and there is enormous pressure on the Palestinian people”.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 11, 2006 - 01:17 PM
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I see - its America's fault that Iran is hosting a Hollocaust conference.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 11, 2006 - 02:08 PM
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Illuminati,
What you are saying about the history of US involvement in Iran is true, but it does not justify Ahmadinejad's insults on Jews.
Arslan
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 11, 2006 - 02:11 PM
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David Duke could not miss such a chance, coud he? Wasn't Irving locked in an Austrian prison, he would probably also join.
Arslan
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 11, 2006 - 07:11 PM
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Yeah well I understand its all expense paid and Mr Duke has had some trouble getting on stage in the US these days -
I guess anti-semites who think freeing blacks from slavery is a the major mistake of American government - is a going to have some trouble getting on the college lecture circut.
anyway Illuminati - if we wanted to play the game you are playing we would never discuss anything.
It would be like you bringing up something Israel is doing today and me blaming it on the Germans.
every country has some kind of greivance - it may shed some light on what motivates current actions -
- but the Shah 30 years ago does not excuse of absolve Iran from acting as a responsible nation today.
This post was edited on: 2006-12-11 at 07:12 PM by: luke
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 12:25 AM
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Hmmm But are we afraid of ?
let the President have the conference if it satisfies him.
In the end he might realise that Holocaust did actually happen !
All's well if it ends well !
It is surely an insult to the memory but if people rebel against his idea then he can always bring the Prophet Muhammed Cartoon issue as a counter argument.
All I hope is that he is enlightened by the end of the conference 
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 01:41 AM
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"All I hope is that he is enlightened by the end of the conference "
don't hold your breathe.
he has clear goals - he is politisizing history. He is trying to amend and revise history to fit his larger agenda.
What would you like to bet that at the end of this conference they will "declare" that "while there is some evidence that some Jews were killed, the numbers are exaggerated"
or "there is insufficient proof they were cooked in ovens"
by the end of this conference they will have "decided" or "proved" something.
It is an interesting goal, to try to minimize the most acute and well documented act of Genocide in history.
I mean Anu, who do you think will enlighten him - David Duke? Everyone attending has a chip on their shoulder.
This is purely political - and really very low.
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 11:53 AM
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In my opinion , the Prez is not trying to prove that Holocaust didnt happen. He actually can't and even if he claims to come up with something so outrageous , he wouldnt have any takers for that argument.
Having gone through some of his domestic and foreign speeches I feel
that he has another agenda and
that is to prove that the creation of Isreal in the heart of Middle East was a calculated move on the part of the victorious in the second World War.
Many already believe it and he is just trying to emphasise the idea in order to turn the wider public opinion against the west.
But either ways he is not going to win any more support than he already has !
Yes , if he is not allowed to conduct this conference then surely he might gain more support by annointing himself as the champion of the voice against the west.
I for one condemn this act as it is so futile at a stage when things are finally going in the right direction or at least seem to be going in the right direction with the Govt in Isreal extending a compromise.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 12:28 PM
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I am suprised that you don't think Ahmadinejad is trying to deny the Hollocaust -
all he did was invite deniers - I saw this editorial in a German paper and thought I would share a bit of it.
"In the past few days, Iranian authorities have once again launched an attack on the Internet, blocking access to sites critical of the regime, those discussing movies and books and even to the free encyclopedia "Wikipedia." In stark, albeit macabre contrast to those actions are the official explanations given for holding a "Holocaust Conference": The government in Teheran wanted to offer scientists from around the world the opportunity to say things about the Holocaust which they are not permitted to say in their home countries.
The people who gathered in Teheran for the conference were hardly "scientists," and instead more like the normal traveling circus of Holocaust deniers who are not taken seriously anywhere. They are also those for whom one is only doing a favor when one approves laws banning the notion of the "Auschwitz lie." Without the law suits which ensue, these people could not keep defining themselves anew and would be reduced to accepting what they actually are: sad lunatics.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad must be in a pretty poor position if he is forced to rally support from that league to further his political goals. Those in Iran interested in history are well aware that Ahmadinejad's doubts about the Holocaust are a completely unsubstantiated provocation. He is not interested in revealing historical truth, but rather, in exposing Israel as an unjustified product of what he considers a genocide fallacy in order to strengthen his demands of abolishing Israel."
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2268418,00.html
"The controversial gathering that the Mullah regime in Iran has named a 'Holocaust conference' has nothing to do with all that. It is a convention of Auschwitz deniers and history falsifiers, who think they are appearing enlightened because they are breaking taboos. A way of thinking that every European right-wing extremist would feel comfortable with."
"A serious conference could have allowed Tehran to send a historic signal. But the guest list made it clear in advance that this was not about a serious discussion of the historical facts, but a propaganda show."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,453982,00.html
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 12:28 PM
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I think Anu - you will find Iran's political agenda is transparent -
"MANOUCHEHR MOTTAKI (translated): The Zionist regime is aware that if the conventional interpretation and picture of the Holocaust is questioned, the essence and identity of the Zionist regime will be questioned."
that is the Iranian Foreign Minister.
again - historical revisionism for purely political purposes.
does this mean that every great human tragedy - every Genocide, will be subject to revision - destined to be forgotten - on the basis of current political agendas?
this is litterally a case where a certain conclusion was desired on the part of the Iranian government - and then they try to contruct evidence to support their conclusion.
It is just sort of Amazing to me that Iran's political dispute with Israel has not been argued on the basis of what is currently going on between Israel and the Palestinain - or even historically between them.
but for some reason Iran has chosen to concentraite on mocking the Hollocaust and legitimizing psuedo-historians and deniers like the ones at this conference.
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Khalid
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 01:35 PM
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anuriandima84 wrote:
Hmmm But are we afraid of ?
let the President have the conference if it satisfies him.
In the end he might realise that Holocaust did actually happen !
All's well if it ends well !
It is surely an insult to the memory but if people rebel against his idea then he can always bring the Prophet Muhammed Cartoon issue as a counter argument.
All I hope is that he is enlightened by the end of the conference * annu and luke
i think iran did something un wanted,
but if the hollocaust is a truth let them speak, no body should be afraid and let them find the truth after the conference
after all we believe in freedom of expression and thought,
so i dont see any problem with it
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 03:05 PM
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Hamid - it is not a matter of fear - I am certainly not afraid they will "find the truth" because they are not interested in the truth
it is a matter of being insulted.
Imagine Hamid that the US completely wiped out your entire country - we killed almost everyone in it - MILLIONS of people were shot, rounded into Concentraition Camps, starved, gassed, experimented on, thrown into mass graves...
imagine it was your people that this happened to.
how would you feel if a while later the President of say, France, claimed that such a thing never happened - and he conveined a conference of other racists, who hate Afghanis - and tried to "prove" that it didn't happen.
how would you feel this President and his conference?
perhaps you should take a closer look at who Iran invited to this conference to find the "Truth"
Take the Key note speaker - David Duke for instance was the Head of the KKK in the US.
The KKK (pic below) are a White Supremicist organization that beleive white people are destined to be the masters of the world.
They beleive that Black people should be the SLAVES of white people, and that Jews are evil - they also think that all other races should be servents of the White man - that includes you.
do you really think this is an honest search for the truth Hamid?
The Hollocaust is a fact, at this point it has been certified by the UN - there is a wealth of evidence I can provide you if you would like.
Much of the evidence comes from the Germans own records -
The arguement that this is freedom of speech is just a perversion of this concept.
Iran does not beleive in freedom of speach - otherwise they would not block all the websites and News media which is critical of the government.
they would not ban Western Music, and Secular professors.
And simply having the right to free speach does not mean the right is not abused when it is used to promote hatred.
Having free speach means that I CAN insult a Muslim every time I see them - or make fun of your prophet -
but it does not mean that I SHOULD. It does not mean that racists cannot be condemned for their bigotry.
This post was edited on: 2006-12-12 at 03:06 PM by: luke
This post was edited on: 2006-12-12 at 06:04 PM by: luke
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Iran's Hollocaust conference
December 12, 2006 - 03:14 PM
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it doesn't seem to want to load my pic - here's another try
*
can any one else upload a pic of a KKK member for Hamid?
This post was edited on: 2006-12-12 at 03:15 PM by: luke
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