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Khalid
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[Poll] Male and female are not equal!
November 29, 2006 - 03:37 AM
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do u really think that male and female should be given equal rights? why is it so? they are differnt creations.
thier strength differs, thier nature differs, and still u want equal rights for both?
This post was edited on: 2006-11-29 at 04:00 AM by: hatamkhalid
are they equal?
yes
(18 votes for 66.67%)
no
(9 votes for 33.33%)
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
November 29, 2006 - 03:43 AM
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background of this question:
few days back when i read Universal declaration on human rights, and Cairo declaration on Human rights in islam; i felt a difference of opinion about the women rights. so wanted to know what is ur opinion.
start with my opinion.
no they are not equal. they are different things. like day and night, created differntly for different purposes. can any one out of u say that day and night are equal?
although they should not be discriminated for being differnt from each other, they are not equal.
say ur say, iam waiting for ur reply.
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Alan Thomas
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
November 29, 2006 - 08:50 AM
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I believe that they are just as equal as they allow themselves to be. Everyone has their own minds, and while some may choose to live their lives one way, others may choose to live their lives another. Who are we to stop a person from becoming who he or she wishes to become?
I'm sorry if I sound a bit awkward, but I was born in a country where we're raised to fight for our dream, live for our dreams, and never give up on our dreams because of the opinions of others.
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Owulezi
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
November 29, 2006 - 02:53 PM
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Everybody are equal in the eye of God both male and female, what matter is how relationship individaul has with God as to make exortic difference in the world and we should not because of natural phenomenon deprived our weman opportunities to get invlove as every part has it own functions, inspite a man always is the head of the family.
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 1, 2006 - 07:11 AM
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convivial wrote:
I believe that they are just as equal as they allow themselves to be. Everyone has their own minds, and while some may choose to live their lives one way, others may choose to live their lives another. Who are we to stop a person from becoming who he or she wishes to become?
I'm sorry if I sound a bit awkward, but I was born in a country where we're raised to fight for our dream, live for our dreams, and never give up on our dreams because of the opinions of others.
hi. u dont look awkward! i said in my thread: say ur say.
in response to what plato123 said: i will never say that both are not equal in eye of God or in Law, they must be.
what i mean is that, man with a different structure from female, should not be considered equal with female. if i talk more precisely i would say, for example, female become pregnant or ill during her life for some days each month, but man do not. so how would we say that men and women are equal.
so, as thier structure is different and liabilites are differnt their must be some different in thier rights, some times men are given more rights, but in other situations female MUST be given more rights.
have ur dream, and never give up ur idea, if it is totally true.
i would like any female members to "say thier say".
This post was edited on: 2006-12-01 at 07:16 AM by: hatamkhalid
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 1, 2006 - 12:54 PM
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AS a woman , I firmly believe that both men and woman should have equal rights.
And added to that there should be certain special rights keeping in mind certain inherent differences.
men and woman are different in certain areas but that doesnt make them any less equal in comparison with each other.
Could you be more specific about what kind of different rights you are hinting at?
If it is the question of maternity rights then yes woman do have special rights in some countries with respect to that.
check this out ;
http://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/publications.html
And there is also a special section under UN Human Rights which is called
CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN
and
DECLARATION ON THE ELIMINATION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN
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heba
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 1, 2006 - 08:04 PM
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Allah created us and he knows the best to his creatuers .... males and females are created each for his own role and responsiblities in this life and both are given the rights and dutes that suits each in his/her different role and natures and capabilities in life and this integrate the role of both of them in harmony at the same time establish equality and justice in earth..
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 2, 2006 - 02:56 AM
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anuriandima84 wrote:
AS a woman , I firmly believe that both men and woman should have equal rights.
And added to that there should be certain special rights keeping in mind certain inherent differences.
men and woman are different in certain areas but that doesnt make them any less equal in comparison with each other.
Could you be more specific about what kind of different rights you are hinting at?
If it is the question of maternity rights then yes woman do have special rights in some countries with respect to that.
check this out ;
http://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/publications.html
And there is also a special section under UN Human Rights which is called
CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN
and
DECLARATION ON THE ELIMINATION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN
i put the question after i read all this stuff along with cairo declaration on human rights in islam 1990.
what i refered to is: when u say, they are equal, means they are the same n all speheres. i say no. female becaue of thier structure and some biological problems need more care and attention. i said once, male and female are like day and night, both with a lot of amazing features but we cant say they are equal. both could be of 12 hours, but are not equal. well said by some people that male and female are two wheels of car, without which it cant run or is useless but they are somehow difernt.
look: matromonial difference, periodical problems, weak body structure, and the liability of growing children are some of the differnces both have, so how they could be regarded equal. CDHRI 1990 says that husband will be liable for financial affairs of house and female will be liable for internal affairs (how to spend, how to grow children). what do u think, is it right idea?
mind u that most of the times i will give female lot more rights then a male.
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 2, 2006 - 02:59 AM
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froot wrote:
Allah created us and he knows the best to his creatuers .... males and females are created each for his own role and responsiblities in this life and both are given the rights and dutes that suits each in his/her different role and natures and capabilities in life and this integrate the role of both of them in harmony at the same time establish equality and justice in earth..
exactly, this is what i mean.
so can i infer that both are not equal, male are alloted some rights and liabilities and female are alloted different. so they should not be regarded as equal then?
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Shweta
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 2, 2006 - 07:24 AM
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It seems that the discussion is focussed on three things:
1. Similarities and Differences between a man and woman biologically
2. Equality in rights of men and women
3. Similarities and Differences between experiences and contexts of men and women.
It seems that some of are focussing on the first and third point. While some of us are responding according to our views about the second point.
It will be difficult to separate the three points as they are linked.
However, it will be useful if we are carefull that we do not confuse each other with the three discussions in one discussion thread.
Take Care
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prieten47
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 3, 2006 - 03:25 AM
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1. Similarities and Differences between a man and woman biologically
2. Equality in rights of men and women
3. Similarities and Differences between experiences and contexts of men and women.
Obviously, there are similarities and differences between men and women biologically and in experiences. I can't figure out what is being argued here: Therefore, women should not have equal rights to men???? I personally believe women's differences in biology and experiences compared to men makes them clearly superior to men (the similarities obviously don't). What man can give birth? Women's daily battle to put food on the table and willingness to care for others make them far more sensitive to the plight of others than most men. Women therefore absolutely deserve equal rights to men (and probably more). A world ruled by women would be a far happier place.
I think Hatimkhalid is driving at this:
Sura IV.34: “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. God is high, supreme.”
This post was edited on: 2006-12-03 at 03:36 AM by: prieten47
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 3, 2006 - 11:42 AM
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hatamkhalid wrote:
female becaue of thier structure and some biological problems need more care and attention.
.
Hmmm, women have managed to live for centuries without any special care and attention.
In a typical village ,women work in the fields with men and then when the man comes back home to relax , the woman still has to work in the kitchen and take care of the household. ( which include washing, cleaning , taking care of the children etc etc )
In cities like Mumbai ... Women again
work in the office like men and then come back home to do all the household chores.
So technically a woman has thrice the workload ...and yet why is she labled delicate and said to be needing more attention ?
contd..
This post was edited on: 2006-12-04 at 02:04 PM by: anuriandima84
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 3, 2006 - 11:43 AM
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hatamkhalid wrote
look: matromonial difference, periodical problems, weak body structure, and the liability of growing children are some of the differnces both have, so how they could be regarded equal. CDHRI 1990 says that husband will be liable for financial affairs of house and female will be liable for internal affairs (how to spend, how to grow children).
what do u think, is it right idea?
mind u that most of the times i will give female lot more rights then a male.
First of all woman dont need to be given any rights ....they have it by birth like men
Having children is not a liability to those who want to . Of course it could be a liability for those who are forced into it. And forcing them is actually infringing upon their rights.
When it is proclaimed that a man is liable for financial affairs and a woman is responsible for the household then again a purely arbitrary rule is being imposed !
what if a woman wants to work outside and a man wants to stay home?
Should they be forced to do something against their wish?
when a state or authority is talking about different rights are they making the choices for all the women and men in the world ?
The rationale behind equal rights is that everybody should have the rights if they want to exercise it .
Of course difference is there and hence the inclusion of special rights within the Declaration of United Nations Human rights .
Again has all the aforementioned weaknesses ever stopped women like Kalpana Chawla from flying in space, or did it stop Rani Laxmi Bai from leading a revolt against the British in India, or did it stop Queen Elizabeth I from turning England into a strong European power, a commercial force to reckon with , and place of learning , did it make Indira Gandhi and Margaret Thatcher weak in leading a nation ?
I think women have always emerged stronger than most men !
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prieten47
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 4, 2006 - 07:35 AM
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What is this CDHRI 1990 that Hatamkhalid so casully refers to? It's the “Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam 1990.” Islamic countries created this declaration to assert that they were not bound by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) which they criticized as a “Judeo-Christian Concept”. What does the CDHRI say? It lists lots of wonderful human rights , but says all these human rights are subject to the Shariah, which is of course the law as stated in the Koran and the Hadith. Specifically about the equality of men and women, Article 6 says women are guaranteed equal dignity, but not equality. The article says the husband has the responsibility to maintain the family. Article 24 of the declaration states: "All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Sharia.” Article 25 says: "The Islamic Sharia is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this Declaration." You can find these facts everywhere on the Internet. I hope I don't need to say that Shariah law discriminates against women.
This post was edited on: 2006-12-04 at 07:39 AM by: prieten47
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] Male and female are not equal!
December 4, 2006 - 08:57 AM
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prieten47 wrote:
What is this CDHRI 1990 that Hatamkhalid so casully refers to? It's the “Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam 1990.” Islamic countries created this declaration to assert that they were not bound by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) which they criticized as a “Judeo-Christian Concept”. What does the CDHRI say? It lists lots of wonderful human rights , but says all these human rights are subject to the Shariah, which is of course the law as stated in the Koran and the Hadith. Specifically about the equality of men and women, Article 6 says women are guaranteed equal dignity, but not equality. The article says the husband has the responsibility to maintain the family. Article 24 of the declaration states: "All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Sharia.” Article 25 says: "The Islamic Sharia is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this Declaration." You can find these facts everywhere on the Internet. I hope I don't need to say that Shariah law discriminates against women.
DISCRIMINATION: it is action based on prejudice resulting in unfair treatment of people. the Cairo declaration on human rights in islam says: women will sit in the house like queens, and men will work to earn money and they eat it without any discrimination, that the man has earned it therefore female should not eat! if she is a wife, must be kept in separate home, must be fed well, must not be compelled to work anywhere. when u say sharia is discriminatory, it amazes me lot? what UDHR gave women, my friend? they can work any where they want, they will be used like property, bought for few dollars, used and then droped without any help? iam sorry, if iam saying these things in front of all members, but it is reality and reply to ur question.
islam treates here like a human, her jurisdiction is in home, must educate herself, must study, and then must work if she wills, but with the restrition that she must not have illicit relations with anybody else. she can do business, she can do every thing but with that condition.
is it bad to do so? even now u think shariah is discriminatory?
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