 Author |
 Post
|
 |
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male & 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 11, 2006 - 11:06 AM
|
|
UNICEF says 17 children killed in Gaza, and 2 in West Bank so far in November, 40 killed in July
Associated Press
http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3326618,00.html
Nineteen Palestinian children have been killed in the past 10 days, making November already the
second deadliest month of the year for young people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, UNICEF said Friday.
The UN children's Fund said 17 have been killed in Gaza and two in the West Bank so far in November. Only July - when 40 children were killed - was worse, the agency said.
"What children and adolescents have endured the past few days will likely have a long-lasting impact," UNICEF spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said in Geneva. "They have seen family members killed and their communities destroyed.
They have been confined to their homes, in many cases without access to food, water or electricity."
Israeli artillery shells ripped through a residential neighborhood Wednesday in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun, killing at least 18 people , including eight children.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said a "technical failure" meant the artillery hit the homes instead of an
orange grove, some 1,500 feet away, from which troops saw rockets fired seconds earlier.
Bociurkiw estimated that more than 300 children have been injured this month by Israeli attacks. For the year, he said 116 Palestinian children have been killed, compared with only 52 last year.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Desert ROSE
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 275 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: Jordan
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 12, 2006 - 11:07 PM
|
|
Arslan sadly is that they always have the same excuse BY MISTAKE , BY ACCIDENT ..........
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 13, 2006 - 01:06 AM
|
|
Not only they call it a "mistake" and "accident" but they even blame Palestinians for this massacre.
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Desert ROSE
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 275 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: Jordan
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 14, 2006 - 10:09 AM
|
|
Arslanik wrote:
Not only they call it a "mistake" and "accident" but they even blame Palestinians for this massacre.
Arslan
yeah they do that 
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mikael
Joined: Apr 12, 2002
Posts: 357 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 29
Country: Canada
Province/State: Quebec
City: Montréal
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 14, 2006 - 11:33 PM
|
|
If you've been to Israel you'll know that people are packed very densely into the land in that area...
And if terrorists fire rockets against Israel from an area that is near a civilian population, and Israel retaliates, there is always the risk that this retaliation will cause civilian casualties.
The issue is how to stop this cycle. Israel wants to defend itself from rocket attacks, and so they retaliate against terrorists firing rockets at civilian populations. In doing so, there are inevitably civilian casualties. This further motivates terrorists to attack Israel. It's an endless cycle, and it's gotten past the point of "who started what" right now... the cycle needs to be broken - and it seems like one of the groups involved will have to take that step themselves.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 15, 2006 - 01:04 AM
|
|
Mikael,
Your position is totally biased. In your language, Palestinians are terrorists while Israel only tries to defend itself. That's nonsense.
Do you have an idea of how many Palestinians and how many Israelis have been killed? Just any numbers? When was the last time an Israeli was killed by rockets?
Israelis have killed hundreds of children since June. They fired at unarmed women. And you are saying this is just self-defense? That is indiscriminate massacre.
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mikael
Joined: Apr 12, 2002
Posts: 357 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 29
Country: Canada
Province/State: Quebec
City: Montréal
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 15, 2006 - 01:31 AM
|
|
Hey Arslan,
I was going to write a long response but it's 1:30 am here and my brain is insisting on getting some sleep =)
Take the human shield example. These Hamas gunmen who were holed up in a mosque in Beit Hanoun actually called civilians into an area where there was active fighting between two armed groups. This is the kind of conundrum that the Israeli army faces. On the one hand they are trying to stop rocket attacks into their country - but on the other hand they are constantly faced with situations in which Hamas and other extremists use civilians as human shields.
Let's be very careful not to glorify Hamas and other extremist groups. These are groups that are using attacks against civilians to attain a goal. This is no better than what you describe the Israelis as doing.
The point that I'm trying to make, essentially, is that we're locked in a spiral here. Israel wants safety for its citizens, and I believe that most Palestinians want an end to this conflict, but the issue is the extremists that continue to use military means against Israel. And of course, it's not going to get Israel anywhere to keep attacking the extremists, because they just continue to breed terrorism that way. It's hard to see an end to this conflict if that continues... That's why I was saying that one of the groups needs to make the leap of faith and show the world that they're ready to take the unilateral action of ceasing their military actions.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 15, 2006 - 01:46 AM
|
|
Arslan - give me a break - you are always totally baised.
you keep telling me that Amedinejad has nothing but love in his heart for all the Jews of the world.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 15, 2006 - 03:58 AM
|
|
Mikael,
Glad to hear from you!
Take the human shield example. These Hamas gunmen who were holed up in a mosque in Beit Hanoun actually called civilians into an area where there was active fighting between two armed groups.
Yeah, I have heard this claim. Now, please, give me evidences showing that Hamas gunmen "called civilians into an area." Please, prove it. Can you provide any evidences other than your own fantasy or uncritical acceptance of the Israeli apologetical explanation?
This is the kind of conundrum that the Israeli army faces. On the one hand they are trying to stop rocket attacks into their country - but on the other hand they are constantly faced with situations in which Hamas and other extremists use civilians as human shields.
Mikael, please, watch this video and tell me how this shooting of women in the first clip and shooting down a teenager by a sniper may be explained by your rationale.
Let's be very careful not to glorify Hamas and other extremist groups.
I have never done that.
These are groups that are using attacks against civilians to attain a goal. This is no better than what you describe the Israelis as doing.
Okeeeeeyy. But then why you describe Palestinian attacks as "terror attacks" but the Israeli attacks -- on a far larger scale thanks to the overwhelming superior firepower of Israel -- "self-defense"?
The quote of yours above suggests that the attacks on civilians by both sides are similar, but for some reason you reserve the word "terror" only for Palestinians. See the bias?
we're locked in a spiral here. Israel wants safety for its citizens, and I believe that most Palestinians want an end to this conflict, but the issue is the extremists that continue to use military means against Israel. And of course, it's not going to get Israel anywhere to keep attacking the extremists, because they just continue to breed terrorism that way.
This is a more reasonable argument However, you fail to talk about the Israeli extremists alongside Palestinian extremists. Do you know that just recently Olmert accepted into his cabinat an extreme nationalist who has long argued for stripping Israeli Arabs of their citizenship?
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 15, 2006 - 04:00 AM
|
|
Also, Mikael, how spraying more cluster bombs in Southern Lebanon than people living in there may be justified under the rationale of "self-defense"?
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 15, 2006 - 04:12 AM
|
|
luke wrote:
Arslan - give me a break - you are always totally baised.
you keep telling me that Amedinejad has nothing but love in his heart for all the Jews of the world.
Call me "biased," "totally biased" or whatever you want, but when it comes to Palestinian terrorism against Israeli civilians, I call terrorism terrorism in the same way I call terrorism when Israelis use terror agaisnt Palestinian civilians.
However, you and Mikael reserve this ugly word only for Palestinians. You can never use this with regard to Israelis no matter how many Palestinian civilians are killed in cold blood by the Israelis.
Who is biased? Who is totally biased? Who is always totally biased? 
Now, what you are saying about my position regarding Ahmadinejad is your fantasy -- totally baseless claim. I have never said Ahmadinejad loves Jews.
On the contrary, I have mentioned several times -- for instance, in the thread I started with the title "Interview with Ahmadinejad"-- that Ahmadinejad made many offensive statements regarding Jews.
What I try to make clear about Ahmadinejad is that he is not a nazi. His view of Jews -- though offensive -- is not like that of Hitler. His view of Jews is not any worse than Liberman's view of Arabs.
When I say that Ahmadinejad didn't say "wipe Israel off the map," I do not in any way mean that his original statement was positive about Jews. But one needs to be careful even in understanding the enemies.
Equating Ahmadinejad to Hitler is totally nuts. Also dangerous, because it has become a virtual cliche for hate-mongers in Washington since World War II to equate the enemies to Hitler and associate them with fascism.
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
DNA
Joined: Jun 19, 2006
Posts: 60 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 26
Country: Jordan
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 15, 2006 - 05:44 AM
|
|
i can say one thing
I wish that allah will help our PALISTININ
AMEEN
AMEEN
AMEEN
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mikael
Joined: Apr 12, 2002
Posts: 357 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 29
Country: Canada
Province/State: Quebec
City: Montréal
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 16, 2006 - 12:05 PM
|
|
Hey Arslan,
Always a pleasure to debate it out with you =)
Arslanik wrote:
Yeah, I have heard this claim. Now, please, give me evidences showing that Hamas gunmen "called civilians into an area." Please, prove it. Can you provide any evidences other than your own fantasy or uncritical acceptance of the Israeli apologetical explanation?
Actually, it's not a question of fantasy or uncritical acceptance of anything. The women who served as human shields themselves said so.
"In the dramatic mosque rescue, Hamas radio issued an appeal to local women when a tense stand-off developed between Israeli forces surrounding the building and up to 15 militants who had taken refuge inside."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6112386.stm
Mikael, please, watch this video and tell me how this shooting of women in the first clip and shooting down a teenager by a sniper may be explained by your rationale.
I checked out the video, and let me first say that the events that are shown in this video should be taken with a grain of salt.
You should be careful not to jump to conclusions about what happened in this video, which was clearly edited in such a way as to put forth a specific viewpoint.
Yes, there are several scenes in which people are apparently shot by unseen gunmen. However, this does not tell the full story. You could assume from this video that a bunch of women were walking along the street, minding their own business, when all of a sudden people started shooting at them randomly. This is not the case. If you do not at least try to take into account the opinion of the other side in this issue, you have fallen prey to propaganda.
In this case, the Israeli army stated that they fired at the Hamas gunmen dressed as women after they fired at them first - but of course, a pro-Palestinian video would never show Hamas shooting at the Israelis because that could justify the Israeli claims. As well, we have no idea what those running men were doing before two of them were shot at. This "picking and choosing" of footage doesn't tell the whole story and I hope that you won't assume that this is all there is to it.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Mikael
Joined: Apr 12, 2002
Posts: 357 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 29
Country: Canada
Province/State: Quebec
City: Montréal
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 16, 2006 - 12:08 PM
|
|
Okeeeeeyy. But then why you describe Palestinian attacks as "terror attacks" but the Israeli attacks -- on a far larger scale thanks to the overwhelming superior firepower of Israel -- "self-defense"?
The quote of yours above suggests that the attacks on civilians by both sides are similar, but for some reason you reserve the word "terror" only for Palestinians. See the bias?
It's not a question of bias - it's a question of definitions.
"Terrorism" involves intentional attacks against civilians, with the goal of causing terror within the civilian population.
This is the aim of Palestinian extremist groups, who fire rockets into urban areas for the sole purpose of kililng or maiming civilians.
And these groups aren't going after the Israeli army. They're going after the 57-year old Israeli woman who was killed by a Palestinian rocket yesterday, or the security guard whose legs had to be amputated following injuries suffered during the rocket attack.
Again, my point is not that Israel is faultless in this conflict, but I am trying to balance out your opinion. The Israeli army generally goes after the extremists firing rockets or attacking Israeli sites, and while there are civilian casualties pretty often during this process, their goal isn't to attack as many civilian sites as possible and kill as many civilians as possible. If that were the case, given Israel's military superiority (as you mentioned), there would be many more Palestinian deaths.
This is a more reasonable argument However, you fail to talk about the Israeli extremists alongside Palestinian extremists. Do you know that just recently Olmert accepted into his cabinat an extreme nationalist who has long argued for stripping Israeli Arabs of their citizenship?
Ooh boy ... yeah that's another issue, which is a pretty difficult one to deal with, because there are clearly obstacles to peace on both sides of the fence! It's a tough place to be in, because the Israeli government has to rely on a coalition to continue to run the country, and unfortunately they have to accept these extreme elements into the governing coalition, or face an election.
However, accepting an extreme nationalist, as you call him, into the Olmert cabinet does not imply that suddenly Israel's policy towards the Palestinians will make an about-face. It's worrisome, but we can't play it to be more than it is.
This post was edited on: 2006-11-16 at 12:10 PM by: mikael
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Arslan Jumaniyazov
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 1358 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 32
Country: Turkmenistan
Province/State: Dashoguz
|
Re: UN: IDF killed 116 children in 2006
November 16, 2006 - 02:39 PM
|
|
Hello Miakel,
Sorry for being a bit agressive and sarcastic in my previous post. Perhaps, I wasn't in a very good mood at the time.
You should be careful not to jump to conclusions about what happened in this video, which was clearly edited in such a way as to put forth a specific viewpoint.
I am not sure about the second vidoe, but the one with women was shown by EuroNews repeatedly. Do you think EuroNews is also a mouthpiece for Arab propaganda?
It's not a question of bias - it's a question of definitions.
"Terrorism" involves intentional attacks against civilians, with the goal of causing terror within the civilian population.
For me, the idea that over a hundred Palestinian children were killed in the previous months were kiled accidentally doesn't seem to be plausible. There was certainly indiscriminate use of force by the Israelis.
But ok, let's take the example of spraying Southern Lebanon with cluster bombs. If there is no intention of killing civilians, why this overwhelming use of force?
Then again, Israeli use of the words "terrorist" or "extremist" is loosely taken. All all "terrorists" killed by the Israelis are terrorists in fact?
And these groups aren't going after the Israeli army. They're going after the 57-year old Israeli woman who was killed by a Palestinian rocket yesterday, or the security guard whose legs had to be amputated following injuries suffered during the rocket attack.
Well, do Palestinians have power to stand up to the Israeli military? Why do you think they start firing rockets? Because they can't do anything with the Israeli military. it is too powerful. And while Palestinians continue to die, some Palestinians definately try to take revenge in whatever way they can.
I am not saying, I approve firing rockets at civilians, but I can understand why they do it though I don't approve it.
However, accepting an extreme nationalist, as you call him, into the Olmert cabinet does not imply that suddenly Israel's policy towards the Palestinians will make an about-face. It's worrisome, but we can't play it to be more than it is.
Probably, you should read more about this person first?
Arslan
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
|
Display posts from:
|
Home
Community
