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ben

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 29, 2006

Yes God does exist.
atheist is rebelion and disobedience..........there is a price to pay for all the ignorant.

only one above all name and that is JESUS CHRIST.


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Cherrie

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 29, 2006


matanitu wrote:

Yes God does exist.
atheist is rebelion and disobedience..........there is a price to pay for all the ignorant.

only one above all name and that is JESUS CHRIST.


Your statement that "God does exist" is an irrelevant statement to me, as I don't believe in absolute truth and further, I find no evidence to point me to believing that a God does indeed exist. However, the fact that you DO believe in the existence of God matters and I congratulate you for that. What you do with that belief is now the important part.

Your statement "atheist is rebellion and disobedience" I will have to respectfully disagree with. I would like to know why you feel this way. What is it that atheists DO in particular that rebels against anything? Are atheists less productive members of society? Do they contribute less to your happiness and good health?

Your statement "there is a price to pay for the ignorant" I will have to refute because firstly
1) ignorance is to mean being unaware of something and I would say that most atheists are aware of the existence of beliefs in deities or Gods. However, if you are insistent that atheists are indeed ignorant of God, then atheists cannot know what it is they are disobeying or rebelling against. Thus, it is not disobedience or rebellion. You could say then that perhaps the mere disbelief in God is rebellion or disobedience - but that begs the question of why such a belief system would rely on such blind following. When someone tells you to jump - must you always ask how high? If so, then why were human beings gifted with reason and the ability to integrate thoughts, unlike other more primitive mammals where reflexionary reactions are the predominant mode of interaction with the world?
2) you say that the ignorant will be punished. the irony is that atheists do not believe that there is a God or any system to punish them in an afterlife.

Well, word limit. But of course the above arguments can continue for ages... much more complex than stated above. smile


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Hayk

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 30, 2006

I am not an atheist, but I am not a believer in the traditional sense of that word, and I tend to agree with Cherrie's reasoning.

Also, I don't belief that one person should question other person's belief and draw conclusions based on his/her value system as to how to deal with the person who doesnt necessarily belief in what he/she does.

We cannot, or rather, shoudnt impose our beliefs and the consequences of them on others...

Everyone is free to choose to belief in what he/she wants. It is the consequence of trying to impose one person's or one group's beliefs on many others that is at grassroots of many modern conflicts.


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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 30, 2006


matanitu wrote:

Yes God does exist.
atheist is rebelion and disobedience..........there is a price to pay for all the ignorant.

only one above all name and that is JESUS CHRIST.


What did I do to you? You think I'm the evil you want to expose and destroy? (read your profile) Look, I have no hard feelings towards you. We both think we are fighting ignorance. SO LETS GET TO IT! One of us has to be wrong, so lets figure it out without anger.

To restate myself, either there is no God, or God does not care about humans. God is not necessary for anything in the universe to be the way it is. I have already explained why I believe these things in previous posts. If you believe any part of this is wrong, TELL ME WHY. None of the others have managed to come up with anything that makes sense. If you believe I rejected a past argument when I should not have, TELL ME WHY.

State your beliefs in as little or as much space as you need, and defend them with logic and evidence. Then, explain the flaws in my reasoning/evidence.

Merely telling a person to do something (like believe in your religion) without a reason is a great way to make them not do it.


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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 30, 2006


mnopq wrote:


We cannot, or rather, shoudnt impose our beliefs and the consequences of them on others...
.


Sure, but its fun to argue about them online anyway!


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Cherrie

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 30, 2006


wvanbokk wrote:




One of us has to be wrong



I would have to respectfully disagree on that point! *

This post was edited on: 2006-11-01 at 11:10 PM by: cherrie


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Martin Tairo

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 31, 2006

Matters of faith cannot be subject to any conclusive discussions. Especially when they have to do with issues of beleif in the unseen and supernatural. This is because there is no concrete evidence on the existence and even the non-existence of a god. How, then, can we argure points on the basis of what we beleive and not what is actually there (fact)?

Let us simply leave all those of different faiths to keep in their faiths and worship whoever they think is right.


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Erick Ochieng Otieno

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 31, 2006


mmtairo wrote:

Matters of faith cannot be subject to any conclusive discussions. Especially when they have to do with issues of beleif in the unseen and supernatural. This is because there is no concrete evidence on the existence and even the non-existence of a god. How, then, can we argure points on the basis of what we beleive and not what is actually there (fact)?

Let us simply leave all those of different faiths to keep in their faiths and worship whoever they think is right.


I believe you have got the point and if we are to live and coexist peacefully in this world, then its my belief that we should have more who reason as you do.big grinbig
grinbig grin


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Cherrie

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 31, 2006


mmtairo wrote:

Matters of faith cannot be subject to any conclusive discussions. Especially when they have to do with issues of beleif in the unseen and supernatural. This is because there is no concrete evidence on the existence and even the non-existence of a god. How, then, can we argure points on the basis of what we beleive and not what is actually there (fact)?

Let us simply leave all those of different faiths to keep in their faiths and worship whoever they think is right.


Although I would agree that there may never be conclusions that will reconcile different beliefs, such as the ones we have been discussing, I don't think that is the objective here.

Afterall, this is a discussion board that I participate in to learn about the viewpoints of others and the knowledge that they have (and expand my understanding and empathy). I want to invite religious peoples to join in. I want to invite non-religious peoples to join in. And also everyone in between. I don't think we have to agree on any one answer in the end - I'm just here to learn.

Aren't you?


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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Oct 31, 2006


mmtairo wrote:

Matters of faith cannot be subject to any conclusive discussions. Especially when they have to do with issues of beleif in the unseen and supernatural. This is because there is no concrete evidence on the existence and even the non-existence of a god. How, then, can we argure points on the basis of what we beleive and not what is actually there (fact)?

Let us simply leave all those of different faiths to keep in their faiths and worship whoever they think is right.


You acknowledge that religion is not, in an absolute and concrete sense, real? Just when I was beginning to think I understood people!

I suppose its not a bad way of structuring your world; you get the comfort and security of religion, without being trapped by your irrationality because you know you are irrational...

Kudos to this site in general for bringing together people who are very, very different from eachother!


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Alan Thomas

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Nov 1, 2006

mmtairo wrote:


Kudos to this site in general for bringing together people who are very, very different from eachother!


Kudos indeed. I rather enjoy the exchange of opinions here, especially since most religions have their own differences as well.

It has been said that two men can read the same book, or see the same picture, and both leave with completely different views and beliefs of that thing that they saw, or book that they read. I consider myself to be Christian, but am very accepting of many things and often seem not to be. I believe that there exists a god, but that even I do not know who that god is. I do believe, however that the god who exists has created us to live our lives freely, not bound by rules that tell us to harm our fellow man, hate our neighbors for their beliefs, and impose our own views on those of other cultures.

Sometimes, I find it funny to see blind-faithers who follow the words of not their bibles, but their pastors. Their church leaders who preach messages that may not be right at all. Yet, people still follow their words as if they were the very voice of god themselves. Though not all preachers are this way, those who are are typically in it for their own sake, preaching from their own thoughts, or expanding their own pockets... little do they know that they're sometimes bringing down the lives of others. That they're telling people to hate others, isolate themselves from society and create a cage around themselves to prevent the "sinners' of the world from getting in.

It's usually funny to me... until it gets out of hand. But by then, there's no way to help the blind-faithers.


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Cherrie

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Nov 1, 2006


convivial wrote:

I believe that there exists a god, but that even I do not know who that god is. I do believe, however that the god who exists has created us to live our lives freely, not bound by rules that tell us to harm our fellow man, hate our neighbors for their beliefs, and impose our own views on those of other cultures.


Can you please tell me what role God has (if any) in the existence and/or everyday living of human kind? i.e. what does your belief in God mean to you? Does it help you in your life?

(serious questions here, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything!!)

This post was edited on: 2006-11-01 at 11:11 PM by: cherrie


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Matt

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Re: Does God exist?
Nov 2, 2006

"my friend, let us look for the answers together." smile charles stanley makes me laugh.

my view is that a god doesn't need to exist as people say. It doesnt matter what created the universe or how it was created or what was before it.

IF a god did exist, i don't think it would be very interested in our lives; if god is all powerful and wise as is told, then god would have the good sense not to have anything to do with humans at least.

as people have stated before, god exists to explain what we do not understand.

but, a belief in god is helpful to many people and they use it positively.

also, for god to exist, i think there would have to be another power equally balanced that exists also. whether that is the universe itself i am unsure of.


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Lewis Best

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Nov 7, 2006


Can you please tell me what role God has (if any) in the existence and/or everyday living of human kind? i.e. what does your belief in God mean to you? Does it help you in your life?

(serious questions here, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything!!)


Hey Cherrie!

I just came across this discussion then (and hey its a good way to procrastinate from the pains of study) and I thought I might give my own response to that question as a way of entering the discussion!

I would have to say that God does indeed play a role in the "everyday' matters of human kind, and as a Christian i believe that. however, I don't think that God is involved in a "puppet on a string" manner. To a Christian we believe we have free will, so we do make our own decisions, independent of God. That is not to mean that, for a Christian in particular, God isn't interested in our day to day lives, and is available at any time if we need Him (in the way that a Christian believes He is available). On top of this i do believe such things as miracles and the like do happen, but I wouldn't say this is the "day to day" norm or God's activities.

Personally, my faith, to me, is how i get the strength, or more the motivation, to carry out all the other aspects of my life. While my faith definitely holds top priority, it is not the one and only priority, and to me I don't think even Jesus would want us to solely "concentrate" on our faith alone. Even Jesus helped the poor and lame, and as these were first and foremost expressions of his works (and in a Christian, expressions of one's faith), I think it is important to draw the line between one who holds their faith as the most important priority in their life (such as myself) and one who ONLY "concentrates' on their faith, and in doing so looses touch with the world around them, which i would view as wrong as well.

hope that isn't to confusing! And please excuse it if it is, my mind is in a slight mess at the moment1 hehe


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Rerenga

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Re: [Poll] Does God exist?
Nov 7, 2006

Oooooh interesting topic! There's some insightful perspectives out there.

Well to put my spanner in the mix I'd just like to state that I don't consider myself to be a religious person, but I do believe in some sort of 'higher power', but whether it be God, a god, some gods, the earth, an artificial-intelligent-mind-controlling-computer that harvests humans etc, I don't know.
Which is why I'm posting.

So, assuming God does exist, my theory is that all 'gods' of the world are one: God, Allah, Io, Zeus, Ihowa etc. One and the same.

convivial wrote:

It has been said that two men can read the same book, or see the same picture, and both leave with completely different views and beliefs of that thing that they saw, or book that they read.

In this case, instead of 'book', insert 'god'.

And that's only if God/gods exist in the first place...which is kind of hard to negate with all the 'gods' around the world hmm?

Also, to say that one god doesn't exist, then they all don't, but to say that one god does exist, then in my opinion they all do (as one and the same entity or not)


matt85 wrote:


also, for god to exist, i think there would have to be another power equally balanced that exists also. whether that is the universe itself i am unsure of.

Wouldn't mind discussing more on this.
Just off the top of my head, for there to be another of equal power, it implies that 'God' is the absolute of something (good?) and that to balance it out, then another must be the absolute opposite (evil?).

But in my case, assuming that there is no devil (I don't believe there is), where would you say the balance would be? Do you mean that one must be as powerful as God? Or whereas God is all powerful, his opposite is not...

Although, if you're to assume again that God isn't an absolute of something (good) but is equally both (good & evil) then would there still be the need for another 'power' to equal that of God?
And if so, in what way would that balance out?

- Rerenga


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