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Anu maheshwari
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how ' holy' is this war ???
October 9, 2006 - 11:38 AM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6032907.stm
Somalis vow holy war on Ethiopia
Mr Ahmed is seen as the Islamists' moderate voice
Somalia's Islamists have accused Ethiopian troops of attacking a town and have vowed a "holy war" in revenge.
The town of Bur Haqaba lies on the road from the government base in Baidoa to the Islamist-held capital, Mogadishu.
Ethiopia denies that its troops have crossed the border but does support the government against the Islamists.
An Islamist leader, wearing fatigues and holding an AK-47, said a "jihad" had been declared on Ethiopia, raising fears of a regional conflict.
"Heavily armed Ethiopian troops have invaded Somalia," said Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, seen as a moderate within the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC).
"They have captured Bur Haqaba. History shows that Somalis always win when they are attacked from outside."
it seems that the survival of these people depend on war and conflict.
Some people and parties thrive on war !
it reminds me of Bertolt Brecht's Mother Courage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Courage_and_Her_Children
all the talk about 'holy war ' is plain nonsense.
it seems that the moment the war stops , they have to worry about their life , future, and ways and means of living.
War sustains them ...and they will continue to support war till have a better alternative !
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 9, 2006 - 12:34 PM
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that is true. but they will eventually lose if they keep picking fights -
once they have enemies both outside the country and within it.
But yes clearly the Islamists in Somolia are more intersted in fighting then in making the lives of the people in Somolia better.
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Saladin
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 9, 2006 - 07:55 PM
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it seems that the survival of these people depend on war and conflict.
Some people and parties thrive on war !
But yes clearly the Islamists in Somolia are more intersted in fighting then in making the lives of the people in Somolia better.
There's something you both avoided, either willingly or unwillingly while stating your points: Are the Somalian Islamists the only party in the African corn that makes living out of fighting with other parties? Why didn't anyone blame Ethiopia for example?
Ethipoia had been engaged in long wars with Somalians in the Ogaden region-before the existence of the current Islamic courts- as well as with Eritrea, and now it looks as if they really miss their old days.
The problem cannot be solely attributed to "Isalmists"....
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Ajay Kamalakaran
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 9, 2006 - 09:02 PM
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The Human Race is Bound for self-destruction.
Can't we all just get along?
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Patricia Kumar
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 10, 2006 - 02:34 AM
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*rolls eyes*
I agree with whoever said "once the war is over they will need to worry about future ..."
Its stupid and there is no such thing as a holy war.
It annoys me so much that people use the name of god or religion to cause war.
It doesnt matter who is responisble, what matters is that there are people living in desperate poverty there, wat matters is that people, INNONCENTS will die.
*sighs*
Yea humans are crazy.
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vas
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 10, 2006 - 03:20 AM
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The war in Somalia doesnt seem to be holy at all.Invsion is being given the color of holy war to justify it. accoring to Daily telegraph U.K.-"adical Muslims controlling much of southern Somalia yesterday declared jihad, or holy war, on Ethiopia after accusing its troops of capturing a town taken by the fundamentalists last month.The Islamic Courts Union responded by stepping up their long-running threats to wage war with Ethiopia, which stands accused of sending thousands of troops into Somalia to defend Mr Yusuf's toothless administration...Western governments fear that if reports persist of Ethiopian involvement in Somalia's internal power wrangles, foreign jihadis will use Somalia as a battleground for Islam against the West."
The 750 Ethiopians were among forces loyal to the Somalia's weak, transitional president, Abdullahi Yusuf. They seized Buur Hakaba without firing a shot early yesterday
Such acts must be condemend.Hope UNO is listening and it takes soem corrective actionand ensure peace an normalcy in region.
When coca-coal announced bottling palnt in Somalia,a sign of growing business confidence,it seemed that new era has begun signalling a change in fortunes for the country's econom.Already in capital Mogadishu's main airport and sea port have been closed for years because of rivalries between clan-based militias.
The Somali capital's roads have disintegrated and there is no mains electricity. Soon after the ingauration cocacola number of armed security staff to 100 an this showed the level of insecurity.
Somalia capital
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Saladin
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 10, 2006 - 12:12 PM
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Sorry, give me a break...
Why is it 100 % always the fault of "Islamists" ?
Or is it just because the word itself pronounces nice when put next to terms like terrorism and holy war?
Why didn't anyone mentioned the role of Ethiopia in fueling this civil war?
For the sake of objectivity, please try not to be entirely one-sided.
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 10, 2006 - 01:03 PM
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aymanelhakea wrote:
There's something you both avoided, either willingly or unwillingly while stating your points: Are the Somalian Islamists the only party in the African corn that makes living out of fighting with other parties? Why didn't anyone blame Ethiopia for example?
Ethipoia had been engaged in long wars with Somalians in the Ogaden region-before the existence of the current Islamic courts- as well as with Eritrea, and now it looks as if they really miss their old days.
The problem cannot be solely attributed to "Isalmists"....
hmmm i dont think anywhere in my post I blamed one party for the war.
my point was that certain people (irrespective of their country, religion...) thrive on war ... ( just like Brecht's Mother Courage)
and of course ,does others fighting in the region give an excuse for them to fight?
Ogaden war ...I was reading about it and i found that during the cold war former Soviet Union initially supported Somalia but later shifted to Ethiopia which was supported by the US govt. and when this happened US shifted their stance and began to support Somalis.
Its really absurd !
the superpowers were actually taking out their vengeance on each other by fueling the conflict...
the whole world seems to be a chessboard for them to show their moves !
of course the trouble between the two countries was already brewing but the super powers then played the part of fueling it ......enough to give rise to the "holy " war today !!!!
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 10, 2006 - 01:12 PM
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aymanelhakea wrote:
Sorry, give me a break...
Why is it 100 % always the fault of "Islamists" ?
Or is it just because the word itself pronounces nice when put next to terms like terrorism and holy war?
Why didn't anyone mentioned the role of Ethiopia in fueling this civil war?
For the sake of objectivity, please try not to be entirely one-sided.
I think we already had the discussion over the word 'islamists' on another thread . And personally i dont agree with the usage. Thats why i dont use the word in my comments.
terrorists are terrorists !
they just use religion to back their actions or to put a moral stamp on their actions.
otherwise their conscience would never permit them to do anything. And moreover the public would not buy it !!!
Its not just terrorists , throughout history we have seen the people in power trying to control religion to justify their authority.. be it the divine right theory or the alliance between the state and the church.
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Ashraf
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 12, 2006 - 07:33 AM
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"But yes clearly the Islamists in Somolia are more intersted in fighting then in making the lives of the people in Somolia better.
"
And I assume the war lords who were supported by the US administration to combat the Islamists made the lives of Somalis alot better?
Very funny!
P.S. Tthere is nothing called "holy war" in Islam.
This post was edited on: 2006-10-12 at 07:54 AM by: Palestinian
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 12, 2006 - 10:44 AM
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Palestinian wrote:
"But yes clearly the Islamists in Somolia are more intersted in fighting then in making the lives of the people in Somolia better.
"
And I assume the war lords who were supported by the US administration to combat the Islamists made the lives of Somalis alot better?
Very funny!
P.S. Tthere is nothing called "holy war" in Islam.
This post was edited on: 2006-10-12 at 07:54 AM by: Palestinian
I entirely agree with this post!
Arslan
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Merlyn
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 13, 2006 - 02:19 PM
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Dear all,
I am going to disagree with anyone defending radical Islamic currents and their war claiming it has nothing to do with religion...
Anyone claiming that terrorism and "the holy war" or holy jihad have nothing to do with religion needs to let me know so that i can provide here a two-page compilation of quotations from Koran, and some from hadith, which will convince most of you otherwise.
Not to forget to mention that Islam, meaning a "submission" and claimed much to be a peace, has as much of peace in it as of villenifying infidels.
Many of suicide-bombers give certain quotes from hadith to justify their acts...
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 13, 2006 - 02:32 PM
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elemental wrote:
Dear all,
I am going to disagree with anyone defending radical Islamic currents and their war claiming it has nothing to do with religion...
Anyone claiming that terrorism and "the holy war" or holy jihad have nothing to do with religion needs to let me know so that i can provide here a two-page compilation of quotations from Koran, and some from hadith, which will convince most of you otherwise.
Not to forget to mention that Islam, meaning a "submission" and claimed much to be a peace, has as much of peace in it as of villenifying infidels.
Many of suicide-bombers give certain quotes from hadith to justify their acts...
ok quote !
lets see where we can go from there ...
As far as i see, anything said in a context has its own rational meaning but if taken out of context it can have drastic results !
with the extremists its the same...they use it to justify their deeds.
The Quran like many other scriptures is written in verse form and verse can yield different meanings depending on the readers...( these words were said by my colleague who happens to be a Muslim and who thinks that extremists are not muslims ...they are just extremists ...be it from any religion)
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Ashraf
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 13, 2006 - 06:22 PM
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elemental wrote:
Dear all,
I am going to disagree with anyone defending radical Islamic currents and their war claiming it has nothing to do with religion...
Anyone claiming that terrorism and "the holy war" or holy jihad have nothing to do with religion needs to let me know so that i can provide here a two-page compilation of quotations from Koran, and some from hadith, which will convince most of you otherwise.
Not to forget to mention that Islam, meaning a "submission" and claimed much to be a peace, has as much of peace in it as of villenifying infidels.
Many of suicide-bombers give certain quotes from hadith to justify their acts...
Go ahead, elemental!
I accept your challenge. Prove there is something called "holy war" in either the Holy Qur'an or Hadith of the prophet. Jihad, for your info, means literally struggling in the way of Allah. "Holy war" is a western-made term that has nothing to do with Islam.
and please...
Don't evade explaining all of your quotations including the reason of revelation and the occasions of the verses and hadiths.
This post was edited on: 2006-10-13 at 08:48 PM by: Palestinian
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Ashraf
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Re: how ' holy' is this war ???
October 13, 2006 - 06:38 PM
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and before you quote anything, elemental, read this verse very carefully.
(Fight in the way of God against those who fight you , but do not initiate aggression for God loves not the aggressors ) (Al-Baqarah 2:190).
This post was edited on: 2006-10-13 at 08:49 PM by: Palestinian
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