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Cherrie
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 9, 2006 - 01:04 PM
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xphilechef wrote:
Religion serves only to divide people and create superiority between groups.
And on a side note, homosexual can procreate, its called IVF and using a surrogate mother. Evolutionarily speaking, it is possible for homosexuals to continue their genetic line.
I would have to disagree that religion only serves for those purposes!! Like any institution, it has the potential to do good or bad things. Even division is not always a bad thing, though I guess that depends on your point of view on strategic division like division of labour and specialisation.
On the procreation of homosexuals, I understand that IVF can mean a homosexual couple can bear and raise children and that sometimes couples choose other means of fertilisation (if they are both women, for example)... I suppose the latter can and has had the ability to have been around for a long time... I just hope you don't mean to say that IVF has helped in evolution! Probably not by a long scale!
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Kristin Lawson
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 9, 2006 - 02:27 PM
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No, I did not link IVF and evolution in any way. I am saying that IVF is a tool that can be used for homosexuals to procreate if they choose to, thus continuing their genetic line.
And okay, religion does have more than one function. It is a social outlet, belief system, etc. However, at the end of the day, it comes down to my god is better than your god and I have a monopoly on the truth and you don't because you don't believe in what I believe. So yes, like most things, religion can be used for good and evil if we are using those terms, but it is inherently a divisive insittution.
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Janiice
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 9, 2006 - 03:49 PM
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Everyone in the world as rights, no matter what type of person you are. Sexual Oritentation is a personal peferance and they should not be "classified" as different and people who should not deserve to live in a society of people who have the opposite sex perferences. When you are brough into a culture that you belief is people with the same sex peferances should not deserve to have rights like every other human in life, i think someone needs to sort of step back in life and look at all the things that they still do, they are humans like , and they still do the things that we all do, they cry, and go hungry, they still can suffer from poverty and from diseases that might not be able to be cured. I do beleive strongly that people who are not attracted to the opposit sex should still have a right, they had rights before they knew what they really were, its better to live your life being happy then knowing what you truely are or want to be like and being disappointed because your scared to be accepted. Of course they have rights, they are like everyone else in this world and should not be classified any different from anyone else.
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 10, 2006 - 06:14 AM
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xphilechef wrote:
The idea that we have free choice as long as those choices do not infringe on the freedoms or choices of others is invalid. Every decision or choice that each one of us an individual makes, affects everyone around us. We are too interconnected as a human race for this to be any other way. Think about it; everything we do affects someone else in some way, so it is therefore impossible not to infringe on someone else's idea of freedom. ANd freedom is too subjective an idea to know if we are impeding on it or not; what one person considers an important freedom, another may not. So when do our decisions stop being a product of free choice?
Secondly, I am really disturbed by all the religious talk on here. Religion serves only to divide people and create superiority between groups. One person posted that religion can cure the evils that homosexuality and adultery create.
hi.
agree with what u said about freedom and its impact on the remaining society.
any body in this forum, plz tell me and everyone: since what time we have the idea of homosexuality? why not with female? the counterpart? why female lost the charm to amaze a male? the generations that passed long before us why did not need homosexuality?
about religion: i ask u with respect, how many religions did u really studied? christinity, islam, buddism etc?
if u r christian, they became united for defeat of salahuddin in palestine. what else can gather people on a view.
waiting for reply.
thanks
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mnopq
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 10, 2006 - 12:03 PM
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hatamkhalid,
Let me give you a precise example which will directly answer your question of "why not females?" and "why females lost charm?".
Homosexuality emergence in Europe had a huge boost starting from the first Crusade.
Crusaders were taking several vows, among others not to approach a woman and not to have any ties with any woman. At that times it was beleived it was for the good of men and wouldnt distract Christian men from their "sacred duty" of fighting Muslims. The daily life of Crusaders was full of hardships, moral and physical sufferings, and fightings. They had to pass many days and month together in deserts, swamps and forests. Some of the Crusaders were taking one horse for two men, and this was a major trend in that times.
Men of this time got used to spending much of their time with other men and apparently all men had desires, and when it was cold, the warmth could be found in the company of their fellows. The endurance, the consolation, the hope was to be found but in their fellow Crusaders...
That is is how at some point of time so-called sodomie (the word was first time used in a poem in 15th century) came to live and that is one of the reasons, not themost important one but still, which brought Philipp Le Bel to prosecute and eventually exterminate all Templars in the beginning of the 14th century!
If circumstances were different, perhaps such a thing might have never happened... but life decided otherwise!
This post was edited on: 2006-11-10 at 12:07 PM by: mnopq
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Anna
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 12, 2006 - 11:10 PM
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i believe that homosexuality has been around forever. it is not something that is a choice, i mean i know i didnt wake up one day and Decide that i was going to be straight. The entire debate is not about whether it is moral or immoral, it is only about equal rights. Equal rights are needed in society today, and unfortunately they do not exist anywhere, but that must change.
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 13, 2006 - 04:55 AM
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goocanfly wrote:
i believe that homosexuality has been around forever. it is not something that is a choice, i mean i know i didnt wake up one day and Decide that i was going to be straight. The entire debate is not about whether it is moral or immoral, it is only about equal rights. Equal rights are needed in society today, and unfortunately they do not exist anywhere, but that must change.
hi.
by the way, while diagreing with the permission of homosexuality, i never say they must be discriminated or killed, they are part of the society. they must live.
the impact of allowing homosexuality of a larger base, or legalizing it would just put an end to societies.
in sweden, germany, france, canada, why they pay the tunisians, and morocans for their children, the more the children the more they get. why not french and candadian give birth to own children? family bonds, wif and husband relationship destroyed, wife lives with someone else, husband lives with another man, how will generation grow, or u think pakistanis, morocans, and tunisins will come, work for u and u will pay.
dont u think it is a danger for the future of these countires?
reply
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Shweta
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 13, 2006 - 01:07 PM
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There are probably enough people in this world to help the generations grow. Let us not get into a simple cause-and-effect or one-solution-for-one-problem cycle.
Also, one does not always need to give birth to a child for the generations to grow. We all can also contribute by adopting a child who is in need of care and protection.
However, it is interesting to see that we all are listening to each other on the issue and open to responses.
This post was edited on: 2006-11-13 at 01:08 PM by: Shweta-sj
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 14, 2006 - 02:21 AM
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Shweta-sj wrote:
Also, one does not always need to give birth to a child for the generations to grow. We all can also contribute by adopting a child who is in need of care and protection.
This post was edited on: 2006-11-13 at 01:08 PM by: Shweta-sj
hi u took the issue very simple. iam discussing the situation in which it will be legal to have a male partner.
will u allow bangalis or afghans to go to canada, or to sweden in such a huge number as to carry out their affairs?never, so the point of adopting child did not impress me. this is something for ingelina jolie and madonna, every country in the world has to grow its own generation to live here, other wise they will be part of the history.
this problem will certainly not happen in india, pakistan and afghanistan in near future at least, because of the family system, family bonds and a large number of regular marriages taking place everyday.
NO body answered my question:
why then france, german, and some other European countries pay money to alleins to give birth to more and more children. why they say that "our nation must spend more and more time in bed"?
this is because they realized the dangerous situation and after shocks of the scenario.
thanks
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Anna
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 14, 2006 - 02:37 PM
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Our population has grown and will continue to grow drastically, and that is not a reason to make homosexuality 'illegal'. I do not understand how any person or group of people can possibly say that this factor that is part of who someone is should be illegal. Its like saying that its illegal to be canadian, or its illegal to have blue eyes. These are not things that you can possibly prevent, discriminating against people because of who they are, is rediculous. Like i had said before, its unfortunate that we live in such a world that we must have so much argument and dissagrement about such a basic issue of equal rights.
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Angela R.
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 14, 2006 - 02:57 PM
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What we're looking for in the global society is a paradigm shift in the view of homosexuality. Unfortunately, there will be people around the world that simply cannot accept this "issue". We can't change the perception of everyone and it will be ignorant of us (those who are accepting of homosexuals) to hate on those who disagree. What can we do? The key is to accept the various truths that people hold.
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Khalid
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 15, 2006 - 04:33 AM
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goocanfly wrote:
Its like saying that its illegal to be canadian, or its illegal to have blue eyes. These are not things that you can possibly prevent, discriminating against people because of who they are, is rediculous. Like i had said before, its unfortunate that we live in such a world that we must have so much argument and dissagrement about such a basic issue of equal rights.
hi. sorry if u r hurt. but i never said any thing that u take such a conclusion of it. i never mentioned blue eyes or color of skin to be the basis of discrimination and i will never do.
we r here to discuss issues, b Patient, and give arguments. if u r right, then try to convince me, otherwise we have freedom of thought, my view will reamin as it is and urs as it is. so plz dont give up.
so no question of discrimination on the basis of ideas or colors arises here.
thanks
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Alan Thomas
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 15, 2006 - 10:32 AM
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goocanfly wrote:
... The entire debate is not about whether it is moral or immoral, it is only about equal rights. Equal rights are needed in society today, and unfortunately they do not exist anywhere, but that must change.
Very true... This debate is on equal rights among Homosexuals. In fact, the topic's title in itself is (as stated in almost everyone's replies, including my own here) "Do homosexuals have rights to co-exist?" to which most of us answer, "Yes, they should." Why? Because despite their actions, what they do behind closed doors, or how they dress, they are still people.
No matter what you do, what you look like, how fast you can run, how high you can jump, how dark or light your skin is, what sex you prefer, how much time you spend online and offline... You're still a human, and should be treated as such.
It's part of the human psyche to place itself above others who are different, and I have no doubt in my mind that each and every race has, at one point, always considered itself to be better of more deserving than another. Some say, "My race has endured so many years of torture, so I deserve ____ ..." others may think, "Well, according to my religion, your sexuality is a sin so you don't deserve ____..."
It's the same darn thing.
No one in our species has the right to judge anyone or anything, or place his or herself above anyone or anything, based merely upon our actions as a race of humans. As a whole we've treated other humans as slaves, as animals, as cattle. As a whole, we've killed billions of people because some other human's words or text told us to. As a whole, we've fought each other across the globe while trying to become the only 'right' way of living out there. As a Whole, we're the only creature on this planet to judge and kill our own because of minor differences in skin color, belief, voice, words, difference, sexuality... as a whole, we're one of the most dangerous, smartest, unforgiving beings on the face of this planet.
Shouldn't the entire human race be condemned for all of the bloodshed we've caused over the generations?
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Cherrie
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 15, 2006 - 12:22 PM
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Hi everyone! Firstly, I want to say a big thank you to everyone who is taking the time to read and participate in this discussion - it is so interesting and great to see everyone having a civil conversation about such a sensitive topic. 
OK, so onward to the discussion.
I wanted to add that a few people have mentioned that "what homosexual people do behind closed doors/at home is their own business". OK I paraphrase. But that is the general idea. I want to say that I dislike this argument because - what, are we implying that homosexual people cannot be the whole of who they are (for sexuality is only a small portion of entire self, but nonetheless an important part) except for behind closed doors... I believe not!
Do we all not believe that every child of God (or evolution or... aliens or whatever you believe in) has the right to fulfill their potential and be happy? Expressing our sexuality is our right and need to survive (at both mental and physiological capacity). Shouldn't we all have that right?
Is sexuality a genetic potential or an environmental choice? i.e. is it inherited or developed? nature or nurture? It is probably BOTH, as with nearly everything else in our lives. does it matter?
If it is nature - do we want to discriminate against gender, predisposition to illness (mental and physical), skin colour...who you love?
If it is nurture - do we want to oppress freedom of choice - like the clothes you wear, the believes you believe in, what you eat for lunch, what you think, who you love...?
Love and attraction are complex things that I doubt anybody in the world would claim they fully understand. So who are we to say we can judge others or ourselves for how we feel towards another human being? Should we not celebrate that there IS LOVE? When the world is in such chaos - when we see love, shouldn't we be happy - for others and for ourselves? Is it not some HOPE?
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Amanda Kefalas
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Re: [Poll] do homosexuals have rights to co-exist
November 15, 2006 - 12:34 PM
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In the US, we have had the right for gays to marry for a short period of time! Now it is very rare for a gay marriage to occur. But homosexuals are people too. What is the big deal? They live and breathe the same way we do. They want to have kids and 22 percent of lesbians have them and 5 percent of gay unions have children. They should have the same human rights as we do. I have a lesbian aunt and i dont think anything wrong of it. She has always treated me the same way my non-lesbian aunt has. They deserve the exact same rights as us and if people think other wise they are wrong and especially people joining this website to change the world. How can you want to change the world with good if you think everyone doesn't deserve the right to "co-exist." That is b.s.!!!
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