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That guy
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
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Truth, please
September 30, 2006 - 05:53 PM
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We live in a world where everyone lies. Lawyers lie to get their clients free, doctors lie to make their patients feel better, politicians lie to get elected, and not to get impeached. Turn on a television and go to a random channel or type "truth" into google, and you will see what I mean about lack of honesty.
In fact, I would lable lies and distortions as the basis of most of the world's problems. Iraq was caused definitely by lies. How many people have died because tobacco and pharmaceutical companies have lied about the safety of their products? Darfur was caused by lies about Arab superiority that justify genocide. Similar things could be said about the lies told to justify hatred of homosexuals, or Jews, or anyone.
Even ordinary people often lie to themselves when they pretend its all someone else's problem.
How do people establish truth? Is it what the majority believes to be true? What science says? What a religious leader says? Do you trust only your own eyes? Nothing at all? Share your views, if you think they are interesting?
Share experiences where lies, big or small, have caused harm and share the truth about them (preferrably with a link to proof). I am interested in seeing where this goes, if it goes anywhere.
For an example of what I mean, there is proof that homosexuals should be allowed to adopt at the following sites:
http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A19006-2002Feb4
Proof the invasion of Iraq was the wrong choice: http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1750127.htm
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Gerald Derome
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Re: Truth, please
September 30, 2006 - 08:05 PM
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Truth very often is a perspectively influenced viewpoint.
When someone in Halifax (Canada) is looking at the sunset he can call his friend in Vancouver (Canada) and tells him that "the sun is setting", the other end may say, "no the sun is rising"! Two truths.
Lifelong seductions and indoctrinations set into/upon individuals differ in every part of the world. That may give rise to two or more different parties beleiving deeply that they are both telling the truth.
Of course in this case according to both, the other party is always the liar!
As for lawyers and politicians, they both have to abide by the doctrines by which they are bound to.
Even a boy like Bush in the position of President of the U.S. of A. has to follow what he is sworn in to do. Even if he knew what he is doing is wrong, he must present it as right and convince the people as such.
As for lawyers, i have not had much dealings with them yet and cannot go on gossip and rumors alone. I do know that they charge for every concievable minute and staple. Any and every new and unexpected hurtle or hindrance of any kind, regardless of fault will cost the client.
Gerald Derome
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MOHAMMED ALIYU PAIKO
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Re: Truth, please
October 1, 2006 - 01:27 PM
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Most so called "truths" are always the conception of the individual that tells them, which eventually could be interpreted to be lies by another person. This is so because humans are not perfect beings and every individual has his/her difference in perception.
Science does not respond to findings with definite positions but rather with definite presumptions. For instance, a doctor cannot say for sure that "cigarette smoking causes cancer" but rather "Cigarette smoking could cause cancer" Therefore, certain truths told by people as a result of their professional carrier ends up being mis interpreted and so end up as lies!
Untill such a time that we all devise a means of making every one see every opinion from the point of view of the person making the opinion, I am afraid many lies would continue to circulate even if they were truths from the person's point of view!
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Jamal
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Re: Truth, please
October 2, 2006 - 03:51 AM
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It reminds me of a Saying in hindi....
"Apna Satya Swyam Pehchano Satya Badalta Rehta Hai...Satya Jhooth Mey Jhhoot Satya Mey Nit Badalta Rehta Hai"
which means....
Recognise what is truth for you.. because in this everchanging world definations of truth and lie interchange.....
today is the birth day of our father of nation.." Mahatma Gandhi" who has shown the world a new way to fight for the truth i.e. AHIMSA [non-violence]...
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Juicykidd2008
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Re: Truth, please
October 2, 2006 - 05:57 AM
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Most people sometimes say the only truth in lawyers n politicians mouth will be a goodmorning or goodday...some even go as far as saying it would be wise to check it even when you are told goodday from these people cos it might just be another lie, which has grown to be a part of them.
But hey let's face it,lying is not peculiar to lawyers and politicians alone, everybody lies,from a boy to his girlfriend,from a father to his little boy.... I think it's the fact that "truth is bitter" and as humans we all know how bad we hate bitter!
The only way to find truth is from the creator and that is only possible when one goes to meet him up there...so till then i think we have to live with the "truth" we find in the world everyday.
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e.sum
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Re: Truth, please
October 2, 2006 - 11:52 AM
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Readers of this thread might be interested in Noam Chomsky who has thoroughly documented historical and political "lies", and is particularly focused on American foreign relations.
It also sounds to me, wvanbokk, that your thoughts and questioning might eventually lead you to learn more about the idea of a dominant ideology which is basically a set of largely unconscious beliefs supported by institutions and authority figures that purport to be neutral when in fact they have serious political significance. e.g. scientific studies in the past have been used to "prove" that certain ethnicities are inferior (less evolved), that sufferagates were pathological in their behaviour etc.
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That guy
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Re: Truth, please
October 3, 2006 - 11:49 PM
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esum wrote:
Readers of this thread might be interested in Noam Chomsky who has thoroughly documented historical and political "lies", and is particularly focused on American foreign relations.
It also sounds to me, wvanbokk, that your thoughts and questioning might eventually lead you to learn more about the idea of a dominant ideology which is basically a set of largely unconscious beliefs supported by institutions and authority figures that purport to be neutral when in fact they have serious political significance. e.g. scientific studies in the past have been used to "prove" that certain ethnicities are inferior (less evolved), that sufferagates were pathological in their behaviour etc.
Thank you! I have understood the idea of "dominant ideologies" for some time, but did not know the correct term. It is good to know I am not the only person who ever realized that human understanding of reality is based more on expectations from culture than direct experience.
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e.sum
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Re: Truth, please
October 4, 2006 - 12:19 PM
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wvanbokk wrote:
Thank you! I have understood the idea of "dominant ideologies" for some time, but did not know the correct term. It is good to know I am not the only person who ever realized that human understanding of reality is based more on expectations from culture than direct experience.
You're most welcome! I'm sure many would agree with you and say that ideology, cultural values and even language changes and alters one's perception and how one cognates direct experience. I think Chomsky treads into that area, Harold Innis, and John Berger, whose book Ways of Seeing is a very popular one amongst students. The idea that even sensory perception is unbiased is considered a naive view by both more theoretical writers and more scientific ones like psychologists.
Unfortunately, a lot of the writing about ideology is academic, and if we're talking about the poststructuralists, it can become incredibly dense. However, a great deal has been accomplished by these writers in terms of identifying how ideology and hegemony functions.* Not surprizingly, it's the Marxists, feminists, gender/sexuality theorists who have done the most work. Film theory is also a very good discourse to look into, especially feminist film theory. A good starter is probably Althusser's "Ideology and Ideological State Apparatuses: Notes Toward an Investigation" You can skip all the Marxism stuff to page 144 where he starts getting more general 
*Note, the wiki article gives political examples, but hegemony can also refer to other groupings such as race e.g. white hegemony.
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Angela S. Damas
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Re: Truth, please
October 6, 2006 - 03:17 PM
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I think these ideologies and such are things other people decided to use them as guides on their direction of though or what they believe to be the right way of understanding things. And we use them to just save us the journey of starting to think from zero point, but lets not stick our minds into only what other people thought of, but rather take advantage of their think to keep on exploring and think more on issues.
Which means whatever these ideologies says isnt necessary the truth, but what mostly what they believe to be the truth. And they are not liers by believing in that, because at the end truth depends on reality and this depends on the environment, social aspect etc in which everyone has their own, just like personality.
So somtimes whats is reported can be a lie to one but the truth to the other because of their relities, just like when two people see an apple drops and both report differently. Its because human mind can twist things and imagine. Human beings can only be honest, but can get close or be true, but truth can be a notion that can be given by non human things may be like computers.
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Mburu
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Re: Truth, please
October 9, 2006 - 11:53 AM
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If you speak the truth, the general society fells that you are becoming too much.
Perhaps being strong at heart will improve on this...
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Amina Idra
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why people lie?
October 9, 2006 - 04:11 PM
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the question is "why people usually lie?
it must be some good reasons to lie, for example to protect someone from hurt, that can be possible, however people lie for nonsense thing. lying became sth normal for some people who think that they will make things better when they lie.
I think that truth has nothing to do in our world nowadays, the only thing that we can do is to ignore this ugly truth and look for the truth in ourselves rather than in the world.
let's create truth in our lives, starting from ourselves, ok
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