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BEN HUR
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[Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 20, 2006 - 06:21 PM
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Conspiracy evidence', Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.Arab affairs analyst, BBC News,Arabs have long accused Kurds of co-operating with Israelis,The BBC has obtained evidence that  Israelis have been giving military training to Kurds in northern Iraq.
A report on the BBC TV programme Newsnight showed Israeli experts in Kurdish areas of north Iraq, drilling soldiers in shooting techniques.
Kurdish officials have refused to comment on the report and Israel has denied it knows of any involvement.
The revelation is set to cause enormous problems for the Kurds, not only in Iraq but also in the wider region.
Inside Iraq as well as in the wider region Israel is seen as an enemy of Arabs and Muslims.
'Against Israeli law'
Kurdish politicians will most likely come under pressure to explain what their semi-autonomous government has been up too.
Israeli security experts who spoke to the BBC said they could not have worked inside Kurdistan without the knowledge of the Kurdish authorities.
The news will most probably increase the tension between the Kurds and other Iraqis.
Iraq's neighbours, too, will be outraged.
Iran and Syria, which have long accused the Kurds of allowing the Israelis to operate on Iraqi territory, will demand an explanation from the government in Baghdad.
The Israeli government says it is conducting an investigation into the BBC report because it is against Israeli law to export military know-how without prior permission.
'Conspiracy evidence'
The BBC report will be like the smoking gun the Arab media has spent years looking for.
Ever since the US-led invasion of Iraq began over three years ago, Arab journalists have been speaking of Israelis operating inside the autonomous region of Kurdistan.
They said this was evidence that toppling Saddam Hussein was only the first chapter in a wider American-Israeli conspiracy to eliminate threats to their strategic interests and re-draw the map of the Middle East.
Syria and Iran, which have common borders with Kurdish areas, are believed to be the primary target.
Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
IS THAT THE RIGHT THING TO DO ???
(0 votes for 0%)
WHAT IS THIS FOR???
(3 votes for 100%)
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Merlyn
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 21, 2006 - 01:20 PM
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This is not unexpected, moreover, as said in the news, Arab media needed a reason and they've got one as far as I am concerned.
Already declining authority of the West coupled with addiional interventionist policies of the Bush+Olmert will be taken as a further attempt to enlarge the already existing gap between Shias, Sunnis and Kurds in Iraq.
But I think, this event, if proven, will have repercussions far beyond Iraqi territories. Iran, with its idiosyncratic President, who was so glad to have a Shia government elected in Iraq, might take this as a challenge to its regional hegemon.
Repercussions might go far beyond, not only in Arab and Muslim countries, but in Israel itself where PM Olmert's popularity poll has dropped to new low of 22%. On the other hand the much leftist Netanyahu is gathering pace and according to the regional newspaper Haaretz his popularity is now 58%. Israel, for the moment, is conducting an investigation as to find out claims of this report. But clearly, internal tensions are rising in Israel and the outcome is not going to be favorable. Already Israeli FM Livni ruled out any possible right of return for Palestinians.
Arab and Muslim reactions to this recent development are well in the limits of predictable, and considering that Arab and Muslim worlds have never seen a unity ever since the Arab Golden Age this event can not fataly alter the geopolitical situation. The only visible consequence one might expect in the region will perhaps be more killings in Iraq itself and around.
I think the only way that regional powers can assert in full their power in the region will be to put aside certain religous (Sunni,Shia) and other past rivalries and start rebuilding the region according to universal human values imbued with local traditions. A welcome sign of it is a recent declaration of Hosni Mubarak's son, Gamal Mubarak:
"Egypt must offer a new political vision for the Middle East - one not imposed from outside, but based on Arab values"
This post was edited on: 2006-09-21 at 01:46 PM by: elemental
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 22, 2006 - 12:32 AM
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Hello everyone,
This info was actually carefully reported by Pulitzer-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh two years ago. It was largely ignored. (Here: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/040628fa_fact). When the same journalist published a report about the US intention to nuke Iran, it was dismissed by Bush as a "wild speculation" and by Rumsfeld as a "fantasy world."
More than that, the Israelis completely rejected that at the time, some of them found the allegation to be "ridiculous." Now, here you go.
However, this info about the Israeli covert operation will be discussed in the Arab world and among the dissent in the western world only. I am still waiting for NY Times, LA Times, and Washington Post to cover this story. Will they?
Here is again the outright expression of hypocrisy of the US "free" media.
I often hear complains about the conspiracy theories of Arabs and Muslims. While, I agree that there are many baseless conspiracy theories, it is also a fact that the US and Israel give lots of reasons to the Middle Easterners to construct various conspiracy theories.
There are many conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. I believe, one day the revelation of employing the "Salvadoran Option" by the Pentagon in Iraq--the creation of death squads by the Pentagon to strife an ethnic conflict--will one day come out. In the meantime, it is rejected as a conspiracy theory.
If there is anyone to blame (most of all) for all the conspiracy theories claiming 9/11 was perpetrated by the Bush Administration, it is the Bush Administration itself. With their maximum exploitation of 9/11 and neo-con candid intention to conquer the world (very candidly expressed in the Project For the New American Century), it is natural that more and more people question the official story of 9/11 and view it as another Reighstag Fire.
Arslan
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BEN HUR
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 22, 2006 - 04:12 PM
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HELLO EVERY ONE:
THANK YOU ALL for the feed back,
Tell me about t the conspiracy theories of Arabs and Muslims
AND other many baseless conspiracy theories.
AS i see the US and Israel give lots of reasons to the Middle Easterners to construct various conspiracy theories.
AND as we all know There are many conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. I believe so,
Here again the outright expression of hypocrisy of the US "free" media will go deep& deep in the well of conspiracy theories.
that well be used to end the world by mistakes soon.
THERE MORE TO COME 
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King TUT JR.
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 22, 2006 - 10:50 PM
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YES THEN WHAT NEXT ;-
They said this was evidence that toppling Saddam Hussein was only the first chapter in a wider American-Israeli conspiracy to eliminate threats to their strategic interests and re-draw the map of the Middle East.
Syria and Iran, which have common borders with Kurdish areas, are believed to be the primary target.
TELL ME ABOUT MORE , GOOD WORK& FACT ??
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BEN HUR
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 23, 2006 - 04:51 PM
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NO one KNOW the truth >
France and U.S. Unable to Confirm Report bin Laden Dead
French Newspaper Says Terror Leader Died in Pakistan
France and the United States said on Saturday they could not confirm a report that Osama bin Laden had died and France launched a probe into how a secret document containing the claim was leaked.
: 
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 23, 2006 - 05:25 PM
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HUMES23 wrote:
NO one KNOW the truth >
France and U.S. Unable to Confirm Report bin Laden Dead
French Newspaper Says Terror Leader Died in Pakistan
France and the United States said on Saturday they could not confirm a report that Osama bin Laden had died and France launched a probe into how a secret document containing the claim was leaked.
*:***
Those know know the truth won't tell.
Arslan
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BEN HUR
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 26, 2006 - 08:14 PM
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NOW THEY SAY ::_
The invasion has given a huge impetus to a global jihad WHAT NEXT,
WOULD THEY HAVE NOT KNOW THAT
IN THE PLACE . <OHA>
*******
This post was edited on: 2006-09-26 at 08:15 PM by: HUMES23
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Ashraf
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 27, 2006 - 12:33 PM
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Very old news!
The zionists have infiltrated northern Iraq since even before 2003 war.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 27, 2006 - 12:40 PM
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Good for them - I am glad the Israelis are helping the Kurds -
the Kurds are a small minority that has been kicked around by Turkey, Iraq, Iran etc.
Turkey just arrested 56 Kurdish Mayors.
Iran has been attacking the Kurds inside Iraq.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4960478.stm
The Sunnis in Iraq have a history of attacking the Kurds
So the Israelis and Kurds are natural friends - they have many of the same enemies - and the Kurds are secular and progressive.
This is not about creating a divide between Shia and Sunni - it is not some massive conspiracy to "redraw" the middle-east.
this is two small minorities which are both treated with racism and bigotry in the arab world - banding together to face common enemies.
you say this like it is a bad thing - I say more power to them.
Iran is using Hezbullah to put a threat on Israel's northern boarder - it seems like the Israelis are returning the favor.
as for why it is basically kept secret - I think the answer is obvious.
I don't think it is some kind of indictment of Western media - to my knowledge onloy one major news source has run this story ANYWHERE.
As for Seymor Hersh - He lacked evidence - even his own allies would not back him up because he lacked EVIDENCE - it was simply speculation.
when a left wing journalist with a political agenda writes womething it does not make it automatically true.
It is not as though the Hersh Article was some kind of secret - they talked about it on all the major news outlets - CNN, FOX, MSNBC, ABC nightly news - the discussed the article as a story
he simply did not have the evidence to back it up - that is why the NYTimes etc did not run the story.
The New York Times does not have any trouble breaking stories which hurt the administraition - they do it all the time - the Neo-cons HATE the New York Times - they broke the wire tapping scandle and about a dozen others these last few years.
but if they are going to write a controversial story - they like to have some real evidence to back it up - otherwise it is called libel and you get sued.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 27, 2006 - 03:24 PM
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luke,
So, why do you think Israel is training Kurdish forces? Just out of sympathy?
As for Seymor Hersh - He lacked evidence - even his own allies would not back him up because he lacked EVIDENCE - it was simply speculation.
Are you talking about his report on Israeli training of Kurdish forces of his report on US plans to nuke Iran?
If you mean the first, then it is proven to be true now. If you mean the latter, it wasn't a speculation at all. It was based on his sources inside the Pentagon. His report was backed up by other reports, even by Washington Post.
when a left wing journalist with a political agenda writes womething it does not make it automatically true.
What kind of political agenda does he have?
The New York Times does not have any trouble breaking stories which hurt the administraition - they do it all the time - the Neo-cons HATE the New York Times - they broke the wire tapping scandle and about a dozen others these last few years.
True, I like Times actually. But they do have a problem in publishing reports detrimental to the reputation of Israel.
but if they are going to write a controversial story - they like to have some real evidence to back it up - otherwise it is called libel and you get sued.
If they run the story by referring to BBC report, it is not going to be a libel.
I wonder would Times ignore it if BBC run a report showing Iranian special forces training As-Sadr militia inside Iraq?
Arslan
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Merlyn
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 27, 2006 - 03:42 PM
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It seems that Israel is not only trying to be friends with Kurds, but also some other more powerful groups such as Saudi government.
Although Saudi governement denied the claim of israeli government that secret talks enued between the two, there is a common tendency to it.
Israel is trying to defend itself not only by brute force, but it seems now to have gained some key lesson that brute force is for the use on immediate neighbors and in long-term trust and respect coupled with state alliances wil be more important.
The self-critique of Israel is worthy of praise. Although it did behave like an enraged bull in the Lebanese conflict, it, at least now, is tryint to remedy the situation. It freed a major Hamas politician today. It launched 2 inquiries into the conduct of war, althgouth not entirely independent as after previous conflicts. Israel even has human right groups, B'Tselem for example, which accuse the Israeli army of commiting crimes against humanity in bombing the power-plant in Gaza.
In brief, Israel is trying to grow out of its clumsy situation with its neighbors by coupling the urgent and the important in such a way as to ensure a long-term prosperity of the state.
I can not even claim a similar thing for any of its neighbors. Blunt accusations, finger-pointing, and looking for a convenient excuse to be insulted and act thereupon is pretty much characterizing many of Israel's neighbors' foreign policy towards Israel, and this is especially true about Syria and Iran.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 28, 2006 - 09:07 PM
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"why do you think Israel is training Kurdish forces? Just out of sympathy?"
because they need an ally in the regoin - period.
And because the Kurds are the most secular progressive culture in the area outside of Israel itself -
- and because it is plainly in the interest of both parties.
Why shouldn't they?
As for sympathy - having talked with Israelis I think they see alot of themselves in the Kurds - misunderstood, mistreated, surrounded by enemies - with similar values.
when you look a picture of a Kurdish WOMAN with a gun over her shoulder - it is almost like like a picture from Israel 50 years ago.
"they do have a problem in publishing reports detrimental to the reputation of Israel."
why would the nuking Iran thing be detremental to Israel - if it was the pentagon in quesiton?
"What kind of political agenda does he have? "
he wears his politics on his sleeve and has for some time.
there is a reason no one else has followed his lead - young ambitious reporters looking to make a name for themselves love this kind of sensational story -
America does of course have a plan of attack for Iran - probably a number of them.
I imagine some of them involve nukes - bunker busters to take out Irans nuclear program.
but that does not mean an attack is imminant - or seen a preferable -
that is the part the Hersh was speculating on.
The fact they have a plan means nothing - they have litterally thousands of contingency plans dealing with dozens of countries - this is not news.
Hersh's spin on it was news - and not something that has been backed up in any significant way since then.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 29, 2006 - 01:25 PM
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Hey luke,
Do you know that Kurds in Iraq had greater autonomy than Shiites and even Turkmens before the CIA incited them against the government and abondoned them later? It was actually Kissinger who said that "a covert operation should not confused with a missionary work." Don't you think by training Kurds, Israelis may repeat what CIA had done to Kurds, which in the previous case entailed very sad consequences for Kuds?
Israel has strong military ties to the Turkish Army, which has been supressing Kurds for a couple of decades. Turkey has warned that it might intervene in the Northern Iraq even after the US invasion of Iraq. So, that's interesting. From one hand, Israel has military ties to Turkey; from the other hand, Israel trains Kurdish forces which are causing alarm in Turkey. So, how to understand this, luke? Unless there are reasons other than the Israeli altruistic sympathy for Kurds, this practice does not seem to me to be logical.
As for the stories detrimental to the Isreali reputation, I was talking about the story of Israelis training Kurds. Why the US major newspapers do not even refer to it? Not only they ignored it following Hersh's piece in 2004, but they ignored it even after BBC run it with pretty strong evidences.
Arslan
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: [Poll] Israel 'trains Iraqi Kurd forces'.
September 29, 2006 - 06:25 PM
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Arslan - I have alot of respect for you - but I think your understanding of history is very convenient.
you need to focus on the truth a bit more - for example
"Do you know that Kurds in Iraq had greater autonomy than Shiites and even Turkmens before the CIA incited them against the government and abondoned them later?"
this is nonsense - and I do not want our debates to become childish - where you just say the opposite of whatever I do.
here - http://www.infoplease.com/spot/kurds3.html
1988 - Iraq retaliates against the Kurds for supporting Iran during the Iran-Iraq war, and through the "al-Anfal" ("spoils of war"* campaign, slaughters thousands of civilians and uproots 1.5 million from their homes. Thousands flee to Turkey.
this was BEFORE the issue with the CIA - no? the Gulf War was in 1991.
you seem to want to point to the US as being the cause of every conflict - it leads to a biased understanding of history.
As for if Israel will do the same thing - I am sure they are issues with the PKK - because Israel cannot arm the PKK as it DOES have cooperation with Turkey -
and because the EU and US consider the PKK a terrorist organization.
their support may well be tied to assurances that their aid will not be used against Turkey - as Turkey is not pitching a fit at Israel about it I imagine this will be so.
as for Israel simply abandoning them later - Israel does not have so many opportunities to make friends that they would casually disgard them.
This post was edited on: 2006-09-29 at 06:30 PM by: luke
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