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Ibrahim kane
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[Poll] Abortion!
September 3, 2006 - 07:22 PM
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Abortion is one of the issues that the world has a big controversory about. It's discribed - according to wikipedia encycmopedia - as the following:
An abortion is the removal or expulsion of an embryo or fetus from the uterus, resulting in, or caused by, its death. This can occur spontaneously as a miscarriage, or be artificially induced through chemical, surgical or other means. Commonly, "abortion" refers to an induced procedure at any point in the pregnancy; medically, it is defined as a miscarriage or induced termination before twenty weeks gestation, which is considered nonviable.
There have been various methods of inducing abortion throughout history. The moral and legal aspects of abortion are the subject of intense debate in many parts of the world.
It's a real rude way to kill an unborn life.
(8 votes for 44.44%)
It's a partial solution to some sexual problems, but it had some bad effects on the society.
(3 votes for 16.67%)
It's the perfect way for a female to get rid of a pregnancy she's not ready for. Otherwise the newborn and his/ her mother will live in a real tragedy.
(7 votes for 38.89%)
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Saladin
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
September 4, 2006 - 01:08 AM
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و لاتقتلوا أولادكم من إملاق نحن نرزقهم و إياكم
This verse is from the Qur'an, the Muslim Holy Book. It means that no one should kill and offspring out of fear from "living a miserable life", since God has already predetermined the living of every creature.
This post was edited on: 2006-09-04 at 01:22 AM by: aymanelhakea
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Kim Possible
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
September 9, 2006 - 04:13 AM
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it's brutal to kill someone's dream...how about killing someon'es chance to live?
it is irresponsible and brutal to do abortion...unless it's dangerous for mother's life or baby's life...i'm against it
not just becoz i'm muslim, no
brutal....you kill an unborn life
irresponsible...she actually got herself pregnant...why won't she just take responsibility of it!
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Alanna
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 9, 2006 - 02:53 PM
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Nadoosheh wrote:
it's brutal to kill someone's dream...how about killing someon'es chance to live?
it is irresponsible and brutal to do abortion...unless it's dangerous for mother's life or baby's life...i'm against it
not just becoz i'm muslim, no
brutal....you kill an unborn life
irresponsible...she actually got herself pregnant...why won't she just take responsibility of it!
I could give you 100 reasons why "she won't just take responsibility for it".
I find your comments very judgemental and not very well thought out.
Yes I agree that in some cases, a pregnancy is a result of not being careful and therefore being irresponsible. Also, I believe that using abortion as a means of birth control is also irresponsible. However, there are many cases of pregnancy/abortion that do not happen because of simple irresponsibility.
Girls are starting to menstruate at earlier ages than before. Some as young as 9 or 10. This is when they are biologically able to reproduce, yet, how is a 10, or 12, or 13 (for that matter), able to accept the responsibility for raising a child?
Also, what about in instances of rape? I would cringe to hear anyone say that that is also the girls responsibility.
There is a notorious story in Eastern Canada of a family who has engaged in generations of incestuous relationships.
These relationships between fathers and daughters and uncles and nieces have produced many offspring. Some of the babies have mysteriously died and were burried in unmarked graves. Check out the book "On South Mountain" that talks about this story. The book is actually out of circulation, and it is also quite disturbing to read.
I believe very strongly in the right to have access to safe and legal abortions in the first trimester of pregnancy. If abortion was made illegal, you would have girls and women trying to perform abortions themselves or have untrained people do it for them in unsafe environments.
Anyway, I just encourage you to think beyond the simple "abortion is wrong" statement. Also, it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. In many many instances, the man is nowhere to be found, and the women is stuck with the responsibility, the decision, and possibly no supports.
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Sheen
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 11, 2006 - 02:21 AM
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"It's a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish". -Mother Teresa
I read the quote by Mother Teresa and it perfectly made sense to me. The abortion issue has always been a hot topic. I strongly believe that human life is very valuable to just throw in the trash.
Here's what I think....
I absolutely agree that abortion is "murder." Should a fetus have rights? well I believe a fetus is a human being so the answer is Yes!
I have read many articles on this topic and issues related to this topic. Several of the women mentioned in the article that the abortion clinic offered no comfort, they weren't sensitive. Often some of the women walked in with her head down, sat with other women with their heads down, were called into a room, told to undress and lay down, then were told to dress and retire to a 'recovery room' until they felt well enough to leave. One woman stated that she was alone, with noone to drive her home and they didn't seem to notice or care. Some weren't even educated about what was to come, all they knew was that they were soon going to be rid of the new 'burden' None of the women who shared their stories were grateful for having the abortion.
So, are you thinking what I am? Well, I'd say we all need to educate people, especially women, to begin with.
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Alanna
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 15, 2006 - 05:17 AM
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Interesting that the women in the articles you read had such terrible experiences. No doubt it would be an emotional time no matter what, but I would be curious to see how they came to the decision to get an abortion in the first place. (For instance, if it was even their decision at all).
I am sure there are articles out there about the relief and perhaps even empowerment women feel after they make a decision for themselves (whether that be abortion or not). I wonder if anyone have done studies on that.
I have talked to many friends and aquaintances about their abortions and they all seem to have had different experiences and different feelings about the actual procedure . At the Morgentaler clinic (a private clinic) in eastern canada, for instance, the whole process from start to finish is done by women. From the reception, the counselor, the nurses, the doctors, etc. Everyone working at the clinic feels that abortion is the choice of the mother (and perhaps also the father). However, those who have gone to hospitals are sometimes faced with male doctors, or workers (male or female) that will be in the area but do not agree with abortion. This non-supportive environment would (I imagine) make the woman very anxious and uncomfortable.
You used the word murder, which is a strong word. If you believe that abortion is murder, and the women and doctors involved are then murderers...what do you suggest be done? Should any justice be brought to the unborn?
It reminds me of cases I have heard about people are trying to charge women with child abuse if they are using drugs or drinking while pregnant. Or even charging someone with murder for a heroin-induced abortion during the last trimester of a pregnancy. Although disturbing, addictions (and the damage that result in babies of the addicted) is a social problem that will never be fixed with law enforcement.
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 15, 2006 - 07:31 AM
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Nadoosheh wrote:
it's brutal to kill someone's dream...how about killing someon'es chance to live?
it is irresponsible and brutal to do abortion...unless it's dangerous for mother's life or baby's life...i'm against it
not just becoz i'm muslim, no
brutal....you kill an unborn life
irresponsible...she actually got herself pregnant...why won't she just take responsibility of it!
You are talking about the ideal world .
In the real world there are cases of rape, incestuous relations, and other crimes against women.
why should the women be blamed for all that?
why should she be called irresponsible for somthing she had no control over?
I am sure thinking by putting onself in such situation is not possible but if one tries one will get the right answer !
I think abortion is the right decision for such cases.
There are no other options in such cases.
abortion gives women a choice in such scenario , a second chance.
check out these reports;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1909220.stm
Congo: A Hell on Earth for Women
[link="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3549325.stm"]
link="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3139120.stm"]
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 17, 2006 - 08:27 PM
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in instances of rape woman should certainly NOT be forced to compound the initial crime with having to bear the child of this unholy act.
there is no question about this and I think if any of the girls here were violated in such a way they would have choice words for those who would judge them for not wanting to raise the child of their rapist.
there is also the issue of what constitues life. Personally I am opposed to late term abortions - but in the first 3 or 4 months you are talking about a collection of cells with no form of human consciousness.
really though I think this is all academic - it is for the girl herself to decide - it is never an easy decision and I would not have much respect for someone who would treat the practice casually -
but it needs to be available and safe - and the decision needs to rest in the hands of the girls, their doctors, their significant others and family.
there is also the issue - to be blunt, that some pregnancies are potentially very harmful to a girls health - my girlfriend just had major surgery on her overies.
if she got pregnant right now (don't worry I'm keepin in my pants right now) she could easily bleed to death.
basically this is a complex issue and anyone who treats it as some kind of simple matter with a simple answer obviously does not understand it.
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Malin
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 23, 2006 - 03:29 PM
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I personally think it is the women's business whether she has an abortion, gives the baby up for adoption, or raise it on her own. I don't get why people are so into this subject. Why is it our business what the women is choosing to do?
A quote from a bumper sticker:
How can you trust me with a baby if you dont trust me with a choice?
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Nickybol2323
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 28, 2006 - 02:13 PM
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I think this is a very sensitive issue, but I think there is one thing we must bear in mind: the matter of consciousness. When is an unborn baby concious and when not? When does the consciousness in the brain of unborn begins to work?
I think removing an unborn that is not conscious yet is the same thing as removing weeds, the same thing as ripping a plant out of its soil. It`s just a bunch of cells. Removing an unborn that is conscious however, is completely different. That is called murder.
I think this is really a decision that should be made by the women themselves. Not by their husbands, not by society. Society should not be judgmental about this.
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That guy
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
October 31, 2006 - 10:53 PM
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nickybol wrote:
I think this is a very sensitive issue, but I think there is one thing we must bear in mind: the matter of consciousness. When is an unborn baby concious and when not? When does the consciousness in the brain of unborn begins to work?
I think removing an unborn that is not conscious yet is the same thing as removing weeds, the same thing as ripping a plant out of its soil. It`s just a bunch of cells. Removing an unborn that is conscious however, is completely different. That is called murder.
I think this is really a decision that should be made by the women themselves. Not by their husbands, not by society. Society should not be judgmental about this.
Incidentally, babies don't pass tests for self-awareness until about 15 months after birth. Therefore, abortion is not wrong and neither is infanticide! (keep reading, this is not my real belief)
On the other hand, caring for babies seems to be hardwired into human genetics for obvious reasons. Some people see even single-celled embryos as children, who must be protected at all cost. I do not see a child until after birth, and have identified an irrational protective urge for children younger than 15 months. Therefore, I would say infanticide is immoral anyway. Most people do not acknowledge this urge, and it winds up masking itself as religion or fuzzy logic or something.
To graphically demonstrate my thoughts on ever finding a universally-agreed-upon answer to the abortion question, I give you this picture:
Or at least I tried. The insert image thing does not work! Click on this link:
for kittens
This post was edited on: 2006-10-31 at 10:55 PM by: wvanbokk
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BrokenPieces
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
November 6, 2006 - 11:44 AM
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An abortion is not something I agree on.. But it really depends on the situation in which one got pregnant. If one was raped then yes I can see why you would want to have an abortion but if it was on your own accord that you got pregnant take the responsibility for your actions. If you cannot support a child there is always the option of putting them up for adoption where they would be better off.
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
November 6, 2006 - 12:47 PM
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why do we haVE to be so judgmental about this issue !
if a woman doesnt want to have a child ...and then she is forced to bear one ...would she really be able to raise the child properly ?
Today's world is not exactly Eden where a child can fend for him/herself !
refer to freakonomics for some mind boggling figures on the connection between banning abortion and crime rates !
Legalized abortion and crime effect
Freakonomics
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Nickybol2323
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
November 14, 2006 - 05:50 AM
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Question of personhood
Establishing the point in time when a zygote/embryo/fetus becomes a "person" is open to debate since the definition of "personhood" is not universally agreed upon.
Peter Singer argued that something can only be a person if it is self-aware and has temporal awareness. Therefore, abortion is morally acceptable, because a fetus does not meet this definition of personhood. Singer also concluded that infanticide would be permissible until the 3rd month after birth, because, at that point, self-awareness has still not been acquired. [2]
A religious individual, on the other hand, might argue that one becomes a person at the moment of ensoulment. The precise point at which this event occurs, however, varies depending upon the religion, sect, or theologians. Saint Thomas Aquinas placed the entrance of the soul into the body at 42 days into pregnancy for a male fetus and 90 days for a female. [3] Therefore, some have concluded that abortion would be permissible in the period before ensoulment.
Paul Ramsey and Charles Curran asserted that abortion, before 14th day of pregnancy, was acceptable, because after this point the division of the zygote through the process of monozygotic twinning becomes impossible. [4] [5] [6] Current research suggests that fertilised embryos naturally fail to implant some 30% to 60% of the time.[7] Of those that do implant, about 25% are miscarried in the first two to three weeks after pregnancy can be detected.[8] Curran also suggested that the developing embryo should not be considered a person until its chance of survival to live birth was greater than one half.
In 1988, the Anglican Archbishop of York, John Habgood, argued that personhood begins with cellular differentiation. [citation needed]
The teaching of the Catholic Church holds that a human being's life begins at fertilization, and therefore abortion is always wrong. Because there are Biblical verses that can be interpreted to suggest that personhood begins at fertilization, this belief is generally held by other orthodox Abrahamic religions as well.
This is the issue that we should consider, when is the foetus a person? I would love to hear your thoughts about this.
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Amanda Lassoued
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Re: [Poll] Abortion!
November 14, 2006 - 11:09 PM
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This topic has created so much controversy amongst the world. I would say personally it would depend on the situation. I would never have an abortion, unless i was raped. Some people may keep their children after a rape and that is fine for them but for others like myself, i do not think i could go through that. I know someone who was raped and had an abortion, i did not think any less of them. These kinds of things happen in our world today, some things out of our control like being raped. Should that person have to live with something maybe they never wanted for the rest of their lives? I am not being brutal in any way but as a woman this is how i feel. Abortion done for any other matter besides this i would feel as a little wrong but i would not judge someone who gets one done. That is the woman's right to choose and no one should be able to take that away from them.
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