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Ibrahim kane
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The truth of Israel.
August 15, 2006 - 03:44 PM
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Hi friends!
I've always been interested is Arab-israel conflict, but lately I figured out that most of people (especially western) don't know the reality of what is taking place in Palestine( the west bank & Ghaza), especially that its under an israeli invasion.
I hope that you will learn more about this crisis throughout the following links:
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-7828123714384920696
www.pbs.org/.../frontline/shows/israel/map/.
www.whatreallyhappened.com/mapstellstory.html.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_printed/P250903/40.jpg
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NaBeeel
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 15, 2006 - 09:00 PM
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Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah -- and shared it with Bush administration officials -- well before the July 12 kidnappings.
 
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NaBeeel
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 15, 2006 - 09:03 PM
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I hope that you will learn more about this crisis throughout the following links:
http://wahooe.tigblog.org/post/42022
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Laura Steiner
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 16, 2006 - 12:31 PM
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wahooe wrote:
Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah -- and shared it with Bush administration officials -- well before the July 12 kidnappings.
**
I respectfully disagree with you wahooe. Yes the Israelis may be close allies of the Americans, but in this case; I don't think there was any conspiracy theroy, but rather a country excersizing its right to defend itself.
I think truth is very much open to debate in any situation; especially this one.
-concernedcdn
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 16, 2006 - 03:21 PM
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Whahoo - EVERY MILITARY IN THE WORLD HAS SUCH PLANS ABOUT THEIR ENEMIES.
of course they had a plan for Hezbullah - just as Hezbullah had a plan for them -
they also have a contingency plan for Syria - and if Syria attacks them they will use it.
as for if the US was involved - why does Israel need the US to create a plan about enemies in their own back yard??
doesn't that sound like overkill?
Iran is a different matter - there is no question that the US and Israel are discussing ways to deal with Iran IF a showdown becomes inevitable.
To the extent that Hezbullah is part of the Iran equation they are talking -
just as Iran is talking to Hezbullah and Syria and Hamas - and making its own plans about the same potential showdown.
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Mikael
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 23, 2006 - 08:16 PM
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I'd have to agree with Luke on this one.
This "fact" that Israel devised a plan to attack Hezbollah before the July 12th kidnappings of the Israeli soldiers is not a huge shocker. Like he said, many countries devise contigency plans on how to deal in a military fashion with their enemies should the need arise. I can guarantee you that the US has many of those. Better to be prepared than to be sorry later... I can also guarantee to you that Hezbollah had a plan to attack Israel before the July 12th kidnappings. What do you think Hezbollah did - they captured the soldiers and then Israel attacked and they all got together for coffee and drew up a plan? Doubtful. The rocket attacks started immediately and thus it's clear that Hezbollah also had a plan of action.
So... when you're making a point... try to remember that it's important to keep things in context. I can make any statement I'd like without explaining its relevance, but I don't think that would be fair to TIG readers!
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Blessed be God
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 27, 2006 - 03:39 PM
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Brothers and sisters
In fact, Political and Economical interests are the factors that seem to identify how far collaboration between governoments can reach.
I don't think that there is any reason for anyone to be surprised* at the so called "discovery" of any kind of collaboration between the US and Israel as they are known to be very good Friends and Allies.
Moreover, a post war plan is necessary for any army around the world. and it may not necessarily mean any bad intentions (Generally speaking)
There is also something to add is that the international community has it's own special values, and they are not necissarily our own Hunam values that tell us what's wrong and what's right. other wise we wouldn't have been here discussing peace and conflects.
God bless you all
*
This post was edited on: 2006-08-28 at 01:12 PM by: s-kane
This post was edited on: 2006-08-28 at 01:29 PM by: s-kane
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Payabzai
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 31, 2006 - 05:46 PM
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Nnowadays every issues is concerned with Muslim countries ! wether it is Afghanistan , iraq, iran, palestine, lebanon muslims, syria etc.
Bush named this crusade war and war against terror While on the other hand this is war against the muslim world!!
Bush wants every muslim country to suffer ! he wants to control each and every muslim country with his powers ! Bush wants the muslims to be under his command !
Did any one asked Bush that did he found any Chemical Weapon in Iraq ?
Did any one asked Bush that where is BIn ladin and Mullah Omer ?
Is there any non muslim country which is not a nuclear power !?
Did any one asked Israel about the massacre in Lebanon ? As they had targeted all the backbone areas in lebanon e.g Oil Industries, Civilians, bridges, Governament Buildings and many other! i have the proof !!!!
Is there any one who can ask Israel to stop shooting innocent Youth in Palestine?
After answering all these question ! think with your all mind !
WHY TO BLAMES MUSLIMS FOR DISTURBANCE IN THE WORLD !!!!?????
There were no suicide bombs before sept 11 and now every where its suicidez even they dont have any reasons for it !
This war take long till the Muslims get to the power in this world ! and then there will be peace and prospirity every where ! no poor , no war and just peace !
I wish i am alive at tat time !!!
thanks
payab
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Azira Aziz
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Re: The truth of Israel.
August 31, 2006 - 11:26 PM
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Payab, there's this book written by Chalmers Johnson called the The Sorrows of Empire Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic. I haven't finished reading it yet, but it explains the American thirst for war and conquering has nothing to do with religion, really. It has a lot to do with assuming their place as the sole superpower and wanting to remain that way. I highly recommend it.
Like I have argued for many times before about United States transgressions, it is the same for Israel.
I have to agree with luke, ALL countries have military plans that concerns their neighbours, it will be folly not to, especially defensive scenarios.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: The truth of Israel.
September 1, 2006 - 01:26 AM
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ChibiMelody wrote:
Payab, there's this book written by Chalmers Johnson called the The Sorrows of Empire Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic. I haven't finished reading it yet, but it explains the American thirst for war and conquering has nothing to do with religion, really. It has a lot to do with assuming their place as the sole superpower and wanting to remain that way. I highly recommend it.
Like I have argued for many times before about United States transgressions, it is the same for Israel.
I have to agree with luke, ALL countries have military plans that concerns their neighbours, it will be folly not to, especially defensive scenarios.
I agree that all countries have military plans concerning their neighbors, and agree that the US wants to keep its superpower status with militarism. However, I don't entirely agree that it does not have anything to do with religion. It really does. Christian zionists played a significant role in establishing the State of Israel. The Christian Right in the US is also very powerful. When Bush asked Sharon to withdraw troops from Gaza in 2002, he received 100,000 angry emails from fundamentalist Christians and was forced to back off. The reason why fundamentalist evangelical Christians support the state of Israel is that they believe this will bring about the second coming of Jesus (Isa Alayhissalam) faster. And Bush is a fundamentalist Christian.
Arslan
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Payabzai
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Re: The truth of Israel.
September 1, 2006 - 03:11 PM
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Well, i agree but if you can just glance to the history of muslim empires you would see that the first attack was made by crusaders over jerusalem and they were so cruel that the horse feet were deep in the blood of the muslim people up the knees ! and so it was called Crusade I and Crusade II ...... then SALAHUDIN came and fought against them and he was succeeded firstly !!
Now in this Era ECONOMY is the power and US wants to invade all those countries which are Oil rich ! there are facts that US now has all the Oil reserviors in Iraq !
Just think is there peace in iraq now OR 5 years before !!???
Irael is the root of Evil i have a book which is translated from french to pashto and many other languages its is named " IRAEL's 24 Dangerous Protocols " in this book all the facts which were secretly collected by a women and transfered to russian and then to other countries are listed!
This post was edited on: 2006-09-01 at 03:43 PM by: mnopq (Moderator)
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: The truth of Israel.
September 4, 2006 - 04:30 PM
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Payab,
I think you should try to widen your reading list a bit--don't cling to one-sided literature.
Why to bring this issue of Crusade here and start arguing who started the war between non-Muslims and Muslims? Your opponents could well point it out to you that early Muslim conquests of some Christian lands predates the Crusades. This debate may go on and on and will lead to nowhere. And it wasn't that Christendon was all-united against Islamic world. Some historians argue that Christians were actually killing more Christians than Muslims at the times of Crusades. Niether were Muslims united altogether. When Bayazid the Thenderbolt was marching to Europe, he was stopped by whom? (Answer: Timur, a Muslim conqueror from Central Asia.)
As for Israel being "the root of evil," this is too simplistic a claim. That book you are talking about is crap. It sounds like it is based on the notorious Protocols of the Elders of Zion--which is a pure fabrication. It is a lie. That lie was used by Hitler to exterminate 6,000,000 Jews.
I understand the anger over Israeli violent policies in Gaza and Lebanon, but it is a sad fact that the fascist literature--the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the International Jew (of Henry Ford), and even Mein Kampf--are gaining populariity in Muslim countries.
Payab, please learn more a bit about the history of fascism and you will realize the dangers of it.
Arslan
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Payabzai
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Re: The truth of Israel.
September 7, 2006 - 05:51 AM
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Zionism represents itself as a political movement concerned principally with the establishment of a state in Palestine to be controlled by and for Jews. It began in the late 19th Century and attained its stated objective with the creation in 1948 of the state of Israel by the United Nations (at the insistence of the United States and without the agreement of existing Middle Eastern states).
In its current form Zionism seeks to dominate all of Palestine and the Middle East by means of violence and the threat of violence (using weapons manufactured and purchased with billions of dollars of "aid" supplied by the United States at taxpayer expense) and to maximize its influence in world affairs and in world history, principally by means of control of the government of the USA (primarily by blackmailing its many corrupt politicians), at the expense of the social wellbeing not only of the Palestinians but of the peoples of all lands.
Zionists claim that Jews have the right to possess all land between the Nile and the Euphrates because (they say) this land was given to them by some entity they call "YHWH" as claimed in the Old Testament (Genesis 15:18). But this would not be the first time that documents written by humans were used to justify land grabs. (And this "YHWH" appears, from accounts in the Old Testament, to be a particularly repulsive entity, vain, jealous, given to fits of rage and directing his followers to massacre civilian populations — an entity who, if he existed, would be quite unworthy of the devotion of anyone with a sense of justice and morality.)
Zionists also lay claim to Palestine because this was territory controlled by two Jewish mini-states, Judah and Samaria, until their destruction by the Romans in the 1st C. CE. To which may be replied: If Zionist claims to a Jewish "homeland" in Palestine, based on Jewish occupation of that area 2000 years ago, are accepted as valid then the claims of North American Indians to their former homeland (all United States) and the claims of Australian Aborigines to their former homeland (all Australia) should also be accepted as valid, and those homelands returned. Not to mention the descendants of the inhabitants of countless mini-states which have risen and fallen over the course of thousands of years of human history. Jews have no more rights than anyone else.
the truth !
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: The truth of Israel.
September 7, 2006 - 09:11 AM
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Payab wrote:
Zionism represents itself as a political movement concerned principally with the establishment of a state in Palestine to be controlled by and for Jews. It began in the late 19th Century and attained its stated objective with the creation in 1948 of the state of Israel by the United Nations (at the insistence of the United States and without the agreement of existing Middle Eastern states).
the truth !
And the source is this? www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/scripts/bulletin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000409 or this? http://www.serendipity.li/zionism.htm
Payab,
Again, please, broaden your literature list. Don't cling to one-sided information. Try to overcome your prejudice. The claim that Israel plans to take over entire Middle East is the same like the claim by Israelis that Hamas wants to destroy Israel. That is, neither Hamas has the capability to destroy the state of Israel, nor does Israel have the capability to take over entire Middle East. Do you think that the Israelis don't realize this? Of course, they know and most of them already given up this ambition. Be realistic. Israel could not sustain the occupation of South Lebanon and had to leave it in 2000.
Payab, Zionism is more than you think. And Israel is more than just Zionism. Also, all this info that you provide does not offer any legitimacy to the 24 Dangerous Protocols that you referred to. As I said, those protocols are a crap.
Cheers,
Arslan
This post was edited on: 2006-09-07 at 09:28 AM by: Arslanik
This post was edited on: 2006-09-07 at 09:30 AM by: Arslanik
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Mikael
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Re: The truth of Israel.
September 7, 2006 - 07:15 PM
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Payab wrote:
In its current form Zionism seeks to dominate all of Palestine and the Middle East by means of violence and the threat of violence (using weapons manufactured and purchased with billions of dollars of "aid" supplied by the United States at taxpayer expense) and to maximize its influence in world affairs and in world history, principally by means of control of the government of the USA (primarily by blackmailing its many corrupt politicians), at the expense of the social wellbeing not only of the Palestinians but of the peoples of all lands.
Payab,
What you have posted is so extreme that it borders on the outright crazy. I realize that you did not write this, and I am very concerned that there are websites which such material out there.
I just wanted to bring up this first paragraph. I suggest, as Arslanik mentioned, that you read up about Zionism. To suggest that it seeks to "dominate all of the Middle East" and to "maximize its influence in world affairs and world history" "at the expense of ... the peoples of all lands" is ridiculous. This means that Zionism's main goal is essentially taking over the world at the expense of every other individual.
Not only does the writer of this paragraph not give us any proof of his/her claims, but he/she ignores the historical reality of what Zionism stood for. In the context of the discrimination and mass murder that Jews have suffered for thousands of years, a movement was born which sought a homeland where Jewish people could live in peace without fear of discrimination simply because of their religion. The Holocaust reinforced this because it was mass murder of Jews (and other minorities) on an almost unimagineable scale. Although you might not agree with the way Israel was created or the way things have been going recently, it's still important to recognize that Zionism is not some global conspiracy, but a legitimate movement that wanted to create a permanent home for a people who for many years were treated as inferior citizens wherever they lived.
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