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Kina
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ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 8, 2006 - 05:37 AM
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Israel needs to pull out of Lebanon grounds and both sides have to have round table talks to come to and an understanding. The current proposed UN resolution is skewed in favor of Israel and needs changes. Along with that, Israel’s occupation hasn’t really weakened the Hezbollah as is their argument of occupying Lebanese land and despite it having high tech surveillance tools, it keeps targeting non-Hezbollah occupied Lebanese residential areas and killing and injuring innocent civilians. This seems to be some kind of strategic move to try and turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah. However, Israel has instead managed to create a united Arab front in support of Lebanon and maybe leaning to support Hezbollah as well. If no resolution is met soon to this crisis, we might as well prepare for World War III!
Julliette...
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Raginski Igor
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 8, 2006 - 01:44 PM
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Hello kina.
My opinion is the if Israel leaves Lebanon now, without any constant solution or agreement (with Lebanon and UN) that will distance hizbollah from Israeli northern border and limit their actions, this war will repeat itself some years later.
And other innocent people will die.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 8, 2006 - 02:17 PM
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Kina - I must be honest - these one sided threads you are starting I do not think promote understanding.
It is NOT sensible for Israel to leave Lebannon if Hezbullah is just going to move back in to positions and re-arm themselves.
because the plain truth is that if Hezbullah just moves back in and no one is on the ground in Southern Lebannon to control them -
then this war will just happen all over again - it owuld jsut be a matter of time - and next time Hezbullah will have even better arms and the fight will be even more bloody.
of course Israel will have to pull back at some point - there is really no question about this - but MUST be done in the right way and under the right circumstances.
so Kina - a little understanding - there are TWO parties here who have to find compromise with EACHOTHER - not just one party.
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Kina
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 9, 2006 - 06:16 AM
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Luke, am for the innocent lebanese civilians because i haven't seen any changes so far with Israel insisting on staying in Lebanon other than more casualities. And frankly i don't see an agreement between the two side being met with the suggested UN Draft resolution nor do i see Hezbollah or Israel for this matter seizing fire. So how many innocent people should die before this is over. Because as we're both sitting at home comfortable, the Lebanese people are going through a horrific time compared to the Israelis, how many civilians has Israel lost in this war since it started??? Am sorry but i don't see a solution in Israel occupying Lebanon except more deaths..
Julliette..
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Kina
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 9, 2006 - 06:22 AM
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Gosha, i'd rather see this war repeat itself in the future than have more innocent people die for no reason. At least in the upcoming future, both sides can be able to regroup themselves or a long term solution will have been found but a life once lost cannot be replaced. If that was your mother, child. sister, brother..you wouldn't want to loose them just like that...
Julliette
gosha86 wrote:
Hello kina.
My opinion is the if Israel leaves Lebanon now, without any constant solution or agreement (with Lebanon and UN) that will distance hizbollah from Israeli northern border and limit their actions, this war will repeat itself some years later.
And other innocent people will die.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 9, 2006 - 12:20 PM
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"i'd rather see this war repeat itself in the future than have more innocent people die for no reason"
that doesn't make much sense - when the war is fought again -
then more innocents will die for no reason.
if Iran gives Hezbullah better weapons the fight would only be more bloody the second time around.
"Am sorry but i don't see a solution in Israel occupying Lebanon except more deaths."
I don't think Israel wants to occupy Lebbanon - it is very costly to them to do so.
however you seem to think they should withdraw in return for NOTHING.
I think they should withdraw only when another force - probably a combination of the Lebanese army and a robust UN force - can take over control of the territory from them.
a return to the situation we had before the war would be lunacy - and utterly stupid.
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Raginski Igor
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 9, 2006 - 02:52 PM
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Hello dear Kina!
Do you really want this war to repeat itself? well i invite you to sit in a shelter (for only 2 days, not a month) in Kiriat Shmone, or hear those horrible lists of killed praying there are no your friends or cousins.
now generally. a new war will take new lives. I think what I suggest is much more ethical. Maybe more people will die now, but if hizbollah is removed from the border and limited, then it is likely to become a political, social party and not terrorist organiation (then It have no reason to be an armed group if they cannot attack Israel) . Then NO MORE people will die.
I think (and tell me if I'm wrong), you think that It is a simple war between tao COUNTRIES - Israel and lebanon who have some disagreements, and one side has overreacted. Well, this is very logical and normal thought. BUT my friend. This is not a logical and normal situation. We talk about a "country inside a country" - Hizbollah inside lebanon, Whose aim is the destruction of Israel, and Israel tries to push them out of their border. Those are not people whose aim is peace. their aim is war. Thier aim is distruction and death. IS PEACE HELPS when we are in conflict with people like that? Those people are a part of international terror organization. Will peace help when we talk about Bin Laden? I guess the answer is "no". Just as before WW2. there was one side whose AIM was distruction, war and death. Germany DIDNT meant to live in peace with Europe. Just like hizbollah (and Hamas) dont mean to live in peace with Israel. Peace policy didnt help.
I understand your concern about peoples lives. I KNOW (fortunatelly not personally) how war sorrow looks like. I Know people who lost their dear during wars or terror attacks. and I, as you, want it to stop. But I also understand who are we fighting with. I pray god that all the leaders of the world have a morality and sensitivity as yours. This world could be a better place.
Have a beautiful day!
Igor
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Hayk
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 11, 2006 - 12:00 PM
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For sake of clarification and for your information below the link the the current Draft Resolution backed by France and the US.
Just to include some of operatve clauses from it:
. Calls for a full cessation of hostilities based upon, in particular, the immediate cessation by Hezbollah of all attacks and the immediate cessation by Israel of all offensive military operations;
2. Reiterates its strong support for full respect for the Blue Line;
3. Also reiterates its strong support for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally recognized borders, as contemplated by the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949;
4. Calls on the international community to take immediate steps to extend its financial and humanitarian assistance to the Lebanese people, including through facilitating the safe return of displaced persons and, under the authority of the Government of Lebanon, reopening airports and harbours for verifiably and purely civilian purposes, and calls on it also to consider further assistance in the future to contribute to the reconstruction and development of Lebanon;
5. Emphasizes the importance of the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory in accordance with the provisions of resolution 1559 (2004) and resolution 1680 (2006), and of the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, for it to exercise its full sovereignty and authority;
.....
I would again urge all TIG members posting about this and other sensitive and hugly actual issues to be more objective, evaluate two sides fo the coin, be constructive and to provide informations sources which migth tend to be of interest for others.
H.
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Kina
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 14, 2006 - 05:45 AM
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Igor dear, thanks for that compliment. It was very sweet of you and it's very much appreciated..
Am backonline a little bit so we can go on with our discussion..
yours,
Kina
gosha86 wrote:
Hello dear Kina!
Do you really want this war to repeat itself? well i invite you to sit in a shelter (for only 2 days, not a month) in Kiriat Shmone, or hear those horrible lists of killed praying there are no your friends or cousins.
now generally. a new war will take new lives. I think what I suggest is much more ethical. Maybe more people will die now, but if hizbollah is removed from the border and limited, then it is likely to become a political, social party and not terrorist organiation (then It have no reason to be an armed group if they cannot attack Israel) . Then NO MORE people will die.
I think (and tell me if I'm wrong), you think that It is a simple war between tao COUNTRIES - Israel and lebanon who have some disagreements, and one side has overreacted. Well, this is very logical and normal thought. BUT my friend. This is not a logical and normal situation. We talk about a "country inside a country" - Hizbollah inside lebanon, Whose aim is the destruction of Israel, and Israel tries to push them out of their border. Those are not people whose aim is peace. their aim is war. Thier aim is distruction and death. IS PEACE HELPS when we are in conflict with people like that? Those people are a part of international terror organization. Will peace help when we talk about Bin Laden? I guess the answer is "no". Just as before WW2. there was one side whose AIM was distruction, war and death. Germany DIDNT meant to live in peace with Europe. Just like hizbollah (and Hamas) dont mean to live in peace with Israel. Peace policy didnt help.
I understand your concern about peoples lives. I KNOW (fortunatelly not personally) how war sorrow looks like. I Know people who lost their dear during wars or terror attacks. and I, as you, want it to stop. But I also understand who are we fighting with. I pray god that all the leaders of the world have a morality and sensitivity as yours. This world could be a better place.
Have a beautiful day!
Igor
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Kishor
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 19, 2006 - 12:38 AM
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Is there is a solution in the middle east just by getting Isreal out of the Lebnon, may for some time this may be the solution however it cannot be the permanent one, why? cause there are many players who do not want the permanent peace in the region, LIke Syria, Iran, Isreal, Hezbullah, Hamas they all want to show they are the most powerful force in the region, and support they get from the so called superpowers from the world and no one wants to go a step behind for a final push for peace, nobody cares about the innocent civilian who always caught between these arrogant gaints. For me if there is to be a permanent solution it has to come from unarmed, most willing civilians of these parts, lets get together hand in hand, lets be one force against these gaints and lets creat forever harmony and peace in this region and through out the world. Request to all the pople throughout the universe lets come together for the good cause. And finally theres a quote "" if you need a life presever, dont criticize the way it handed to you.""
Kishor.
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Hayk
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 21, 2006 - 02:40 PM
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"PARIS The shaky, United Nations-brokered cease-fire in Lebanon suffered another blow on Sunday when the European countries that had been called upon to provide the backbone of a peacekeeping force delayed a decision on committing troops until the mission is more clearly defined.
Their reservations postponed any action on the force at least until Wednesday, when the European Union will take up the issue.
Haunted by their experiences in Bosnia in the 1990's, when their forces were unable to stop widespread ethnic killing, European governments are insisting upon clarifying the chain of command and rules of engagement before plunging into the even greater complexities of the Middle East.
...
In addition, a senior French official said, "Italy, Spain and Finland have raised the same questions as France has." Following the usual diplomatic practice, the official asked not to be identified. A spokesman for the Spanish Foreign Ministry said Spain was willing to send troops, "but the rules have to be clarified and agreed on."
Some countries, like Australia, which has placed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, have flatly refused to commit troops. "We have no intention of making any significant contribution," said a senior Australian government official, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter. "We don't have any confidence in it. It is not going to have the mandate to disarm Hezbollah."
The confusion over the peacekeeping force, coming just a day after an Israeli commando raid, added to fears that the cease-fire could easily break down. "Unfortunately, there is a tilting edge where things very easily, within the next weeks or months, can slide out of control," a top United Nations envoy, Terje Roed-Larsen, said at a news conference in Beirut on Sunday, after two days of meetings with Lebanese officials. Finland, which holds the rotating presidency of the European Union, scheduled the Wednesday meeting in Brussels, where diplomatic and military experts were expected to address questions that they believed have still not been properly answered.
...
"
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/21/africa/web.0821mideast.php
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Azira Aziz
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 22, 2006 - 02:04 AM
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My twisted sense of humour solution:
Evacuate the Lebanese civillians outta there, contain the area, and tell BOTH terrorists to have their own private showdown and have a reality tv show filming there so we can see the soldiers doing the hanky panky during breaks.
My more realistic and sober solution:
WHO won? As I see it nobody did. Both sides lost their soldiers, and a number of civillians on both sides are dead. More Muslim Arabs and the Jewish population I might add. The perspective I'm exposed to is the impression that Hizbullah did win, despite my former opinion, and I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
I think the best plan we have is to have the peacekeepers there as a temporary solution while we figure out something.
I'm tempted to propose Area 34 (North Korean and South Korea minefield at the borders which WORKED in keeping these two factions from each others' ground troops at least, and no civillians lost their lives as yet because of it). My only doubt it whether it is a tangibly suitable solution fior the situation going on there.
Gosha, I believe the global community do not doubt Israel's point of view when it comes to Hizbullah, but their methods are absolutely wrong. Reducing Beirut to rubble did not solve their problem, I believe Israel's internal politics is a little rocky, knowing that the Jewish people itself are symphatetic towards the lost innocent lives. Regardless, I agree with you wholeheartedly. A second war is the last thing that is in the best interests of all sides.
For some reason I recall the movie Troy in a scene where Archilles (Ben Affleck, ahem) and an opponent (the best of each side) fought instead of having the whole armies fighting. It's simplistic, one man dies, and a clear win without loss of lives, but today things are not so simple are they?
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Hayk
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
August 22, 2006 - 02:35 PM
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I thought you might want to know...
"Italy has said it would be willing to lead a force to police the ceasefire in southern Lebanon.
But Foreign Minister Massimo D'Alema warned his country could only fulfil its offer if Israel respected the truce, now in its ninth day.
......
"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5273188.stm
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Hayk
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Israel vs. Hezbollah interplay (France comes into the game)
August 24, 2006 - 03:46 PM
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Better late than never......!!
"President Jacques Chirac has pledged an additional 1,600 French troops to the UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon.
He announced the despatch of a further two battalions in a televised address in which he also said France was willing to continue leading the force.
He described the ceasefire between Israeli forces and Hezbollah guerrillas in southern Lebanon as "fragile".
France was heavily criticised over its initial offer of just 200 extra troops for the UN force in its former colony.
Along with the 200 troops who were already in the long-established UN Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil), this takes France's commitment to 2,000.
Before Mr Chirac's announcement, Italy, which has pledged 3,000 troops, had offered to lead the augmented force.
UN welcome
Mr Chirac said: "Two extra battalions will deployed on the ground to extend our numbers within Unifil.
"Two thousand French troops will therefore be placed under the control of the United Nations in Lebanon.
...
"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5283660.stm
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Kina
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Re: ONLY SENSIBLE DIPLOMATIC RESOLUTION-ISRAEL GET OUT OF LEBANON!!
September 8, 2006 - 03:05 AM
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Hey Chibi, i agree with your more sensible solution, but just a matter of little correction in the movie you referred to: TROY, it was Brad Pitt not Ben Affleck who was AKA (Archilles). But love your point though because having a middle person in this case the peacekeepers (UN/International Community) mitigate will hold off the war for a while but seriously i wish all this was over.
your,
JZahra (Kina)
ChibiMelody wrote:
My twisted sense of humour solution:
Evacuate the Lebanese civillians outta there, contain the area, and tell BOTH terrorists to have their own private showdown and have a reality tv show filming there so we can see the soldiers doing the hanky panky during breaks.
My more realistic and sober solution:
WHO won? As I see it nobody did. Both sides lost their soldiers, and a number of civillians on both sides are dead. More Muslim Arabs and the Jewish population I might add. The perspective I'm exposed to is the impression that Hizbullah did win, despite my former opinion, and I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
I think the best plan we have is to have the peacekeepers there as a temporary solution while we figure out something.
I'm tempted to propose Area 34 (North Korean and South Korea minefield at the borders which WORKED in keeping these two factions from each others' ground troops at least, and no civillians lost their lives as yet because of it). My only doubt it whether it is a tangibly suitable solution fior the situation going on there.
Gosha, I believe the global community do not doubt Israel's point of view when it comes to Hizbullah, but their methods are absolutely wrong. Reducing Beirut to rubble did not solve their problem, I believe Israel's internal politics is a little rocky, knowing that the Jewish people itself are symphatetic towards the lost innocent lives. Regardless, I agree with you wholeheartedly. A second war is the last thing that is in the best interests of all sides.
For some reason I recall the movie Troy in a scene where Archilles (Ben Affleck, ahem) and an opponent (the best of each side) fought instead of having the whole armies fighting. It's simplistic, one man dies, and a clear win without loss of lives, but today things are not so simple are they?
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