 Author |
 Post
|
 |
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male & 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Radical Islamists pick another fight
August 1, 2006 - 01:53 PM
|
|
why is it impossible for radical Islamists to live in peace with other people?
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3521C171-4DB5-4CCC-9DB0-5E56396714DC.htm
Hundreds of Philippine troops have clashed with suspected Islamist fighters after bombing their base in the south of the country.
Helicopter gunships and fixed-wing aircraft fired rockets and dropped bombs on the base of suspected members of Abu Sayyaf, a senior military general said.
The military said it has launched a new offensive against Abu Sayyaf and Jemaah Islamiyah, an Indonesian-based group, in the southern Philippines.
"We've been tracking these terrorists for months," a spokesman told reporters in Zamboanga City. "The time is now. We've located them and we're going to finish them off."
Heavy fighting broke out after the bombing on the remote island of Jolo in Sulu province. Two soldiers were wounded in the operation, which involved 500 troops.
The leader of Abu Sayyaf, Khaddafy Janjalani, and a number of fighters belonging to Jemaah Islamiyah, another Islamist group, have been seen on Jolo in recent months, military officials have said.
US troops
Janjalani's presence on the island has raised concerns that Abu Sayyaf might be planning attacks against Philippine and US troops based there as part of a counterterrorism training operation.
Two suspects in the 2002 bombings on the Indonesian island of Bali are also believed to be hiding on the island.
The two Islamist groups are continuing to plot bomb attacks in southeast Asia, military intelligence authorities have said.
Abu Sayyaf is blamed for the country's worst terrorist attack, the bombing of a ferry near Manila in February 2004 that killed more than 100 people. The group wants a separate state for the minority Muslim population in the Philippines.
Jemaah Islamiah is fighting for an Islamic state that includes Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, the southern Philippines, and southern Thailand.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Shweta
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 234 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Chatterbox
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 32
Country: India
Province/State: Delhi
City: Delhi
|
how the headings can be labelling!
August 2, 2006 - 08:10 AM
|
|
the only reason that i started reading this post was beacuse a saw a generalized stament .."Islamists pick another fight". it is the staments like these which, especially in India, lead to people stating their opinions as if thats the only view that counts!
here , i am talking about India where people following Islam are in Minority. They are in minority in the world as well of course. and right now they are being targetted as if all the people following Islam are terrorists! generalised staements like .."Islamists pick another fight" propagates the assumptions and judgemnts that many people seem to be forming..unfortunately all over the world! Is is only people following Islam who fight? Don't other communities also fight or fight back?
how many times do we like if people were to say assumptions about us/our community/our country/our religion in such a stament? I am sure we wont like it! We must reject such statements!
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 2, 2006 - 01:45 PM
|
|
By "Islamist" I was not referring to all Muslims - I was referring to radical Islamic groups.
Since Al Jazeera refers to them as "Islamists" it seems appropriate.
or do you think that Al Jazeera is making gross generalizations designed to create hatred against the Muslim community?
what would rather I called them?
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Shweta
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 234 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Chatterbox
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 32
Country: India
Province/State: Delhi
City: Delhi
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 3, 2006 - 01:53 AM
|
|
we must be careful about the words. this is not to offend yuo but just a friendly suggestion. that we need to use the term which is understood by people as you would want them to. otherwise thier can be confusions. thank you for clarifying what you meant by the use of the term "islamist". i am sure al jazeera has its own reasons for using the terms. we need to try and be sensitive abut the fact that most people in the world may not agree with the way "islamist" word is being used. it is being used as a bad label. and that is something that we need to oppose.
i dont like being called a hindu just because it segregates me form others. i ahev other identiites too. being a hindu is not my identity. it can be one part. similarly.. following islam is one part of other's identity. thats not the only thing that people do in the world. people need to be respected and valued for may identities they carry.
regards and peace
shweta
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Laura Steiner
Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 66 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 29
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Milton
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 3, 2006 - 01:47 PM
|
|
I know very well that Islam is a peace-loving, moderate religion. But the fact is, there are some extreme fundamentalist factions who do these abhorrent things- like blow up buildings, and threaten the utter anhilation of another country.
The question is, and it's one that is slowly being asked by Muslim communites here in the west is: What is it about Islam, that leaves it so vulnerable to these extreme fringe groups?
Until we answer that, there may never be any kind of peace.
Note, I use the word 'we' because I think that the non-Muslim community has to play a part in finding the answer, and helping to find a possible solution.
-concernedcdn
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Desert ROSE
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 275 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: Jordan
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 3, 2006 - 02:10 PM
|
|
Asalam alikom everyone
luke the headline for this article was "Philippines attacks Islamists" not "Islamists pick another fight"
thanks for both Shweta-sj and concernedcdn for your comments really 
now an answer to your question taking under concentration that there are alot of things that affect that like media .....media concentrates alot if something was done by anything that has to do with the word Muslims and Islam and unfortunetly from my point of view most of the times in a very negative way so no wonder that now people connect muslims with terrorism ,another thing that was said from more than one woman who are americans that before they started reading about Islam all they ever heard that it's a bad religion for uncivilized people who treat women so badly .....so The General Idea non-muslims have about Islam ofcource has a powerful affect
"What is it about Islam, that leaves it so vulnerable to these extreme fringe groups?"
the eyes are on Islam now and ofcource the wrong understanding of Islam itself and explaining verses in a way for people that help their own aims and goals which could be wrong ,another thing is that alot of people do things in the name of a specific religion it happened with other religions as well
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 3, 2006 - 04:38 PM
|
|
Batoola - are you really blaming the MEDIA for the perception that international terrorism has something to do with Islamic fundamentalism?
You really think it is the media's fault for publishing a story on an act of terrorism - or is the the Radical Islamic groups fault for committing the act of terrorism in the first place?
Personally - I think the perception that Islamic fundamentalism is connected to terrorism has more to do with Hezbullah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaeda, Abu Sayyaf, Ansar al-Islam, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Jemaah Islamiyah
These groups which commit acts of terrorism porportedly in the name of Islam -
I think these actions do more to create such perceptions - at a fundamental level -
than it does CNN, BBC, FOX, MSNBC or the New York Times - who just write about what happened.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
esizzle
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 24 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Talkative
User is
Offline
Age: 28
Country: Canada
Province/State: Ontario
City: Kingston
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 3, 2006 - 05:36 PM
|
|
concernedcdn wrote:
The question is, and it's one that is slowly being asked by Muslim communites here in the west is: What is it about Islam, that leaves it so vulnerable to these extreme fringe groups?
That is a good question, concernedcdn, however, I think it can only be answered on a case by case basis. The reasons behind Hamas and the Muslim Palestinian uprising will have little to do with one in Philipinnes, for example.
Perhaps, generally speaking, my first impression is that:
1) It's not that Islam as a religion is prone to extreme fringe groups, it's that the countries in which these groups are uprising is usually within post-colonial soceities, marginalised communities, occupation, imperialism, .. etc. Look at Arabic countries for example, we never really gained our independance. It was granted to us by the french/british. Wouldn't you expect that a system deprived of its own right to self-determination will ofcourse be an unstable one?
2) The way you phrased your question, ("so vulnuerable"* made it sound as if Islam is more vulnerable to extremism than other religions or groups. This is not an objective statement of course. Maybe this is just how we're perceiving Islam as relatively more so vulnurable? Whether it's from our opinions being shaped by inherently biased media, or if it's our own experience with Islam.. regardless of whatever the reason for our perceptions (and misperceptions).. clearly, it would not be a complete truth to say that Islam is more vulnerable to extremism than other groups.
Finally, I would appreciate it if the word 'terrorism' does not get thrown around so loosely. It is a very general and very relative term and, in my view, it does nothing to further any arguments but only debilitate the discussion.
This post was edited on: 2006-08-03 at 05:41 PM by: esizzle
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Desert ROSE
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 275 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: Jordan
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 3, 2006 - 06:01 PM
|
|
as a matter of a fact yes luke I do blame the media but that doesn't mean that I only blame the media
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 3, 2006 - 11:05 PM
|
|
All media everywhere in the world is biased - Arab media is certainly biased - they are all writtenand tailered to certain audiences.
it is also written by people who have their own origen from which to understand the world.
American Journalists are GOING to see things differently than Arabic ones - it is really unavoidable.
Although I do think some western stations try a bit harder to find balance.
On American television I see reps of the Israeli gov and of the Lebanese Gov - I even see Hezbullah spokespeople.
I have not seen alot of interviews with Israeli leaders done by the Arab media.
However Ezzizle - "The reasons behind Hamas and the Muslim Palestinian uprising will have little to do with one in Philipinnes, for example."
They share an ideology - all these groups are rooted in Fundamentalist Islam.
it would be foolish to ignore the ideological connection between all these groups.
often these groups share a common goal of creating an Islamic regeime.
Those in the Phillipenes want to create their own independant Islamic country carved out of the Phillipenes -
how is that different than the Chechans? or Hamas? How is that different from what Hezbullah has basically already done? Or what Radical Islamic groups in Kashmir are trying to do?
other groups like to overthrow their national governments - like Al Qaeda in various countries like Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia.
that is why it is silly to say that Islamic fundamentalism is soley in response to occupation or Imperialism.
When the bombs went off in Mumbia last week - how was occupation an issue?
when they hit the Jordan wedding?
When they blew up that night club in Bali?
The kids who killed all those people in London were FROM England.
there is an ideology at work here - it is not Islam per say -
it is an particular interpretation of Islam, particulalry around the concept of Jihad - which serves to inspires these groups and also connects them ideologically.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Shweta
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 234 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Chatterbox
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 32
Country: India
Province/State: Delhi
City: Delhi
|
ideology of violence, hartred, power?
August 4, 2006 - 11:32 AM
|
|
what esizzle has written is wonderful. and luke...when one talks about media..one is talking about the perception it leads to. often such wrong perceptions lead to violence/riots.
the perception being created all over the world is that people forllowing islam are terrorists! and thats a sad perception. when blasts hit mumbai.... people in delhi start becoming little bit distant from each other just beacuse they belong to different religions. so much mistust has been created. so much bitterness has entered the hearts of people that it is saddening.
of course not everybody hates everybody. there are people who try to maintain communal harmony. but whats spreading is the idealoody of hatred and mistrust. its not the ideolody of islam which leads to terrorism or loss of lives.
it is th ideology of violence and imposing power which is leading to so many deaths. but thats not where it begins from. the social factors...the poverty..being marginilalized..and other discriminating and exploitative factors also very much contribute to the present situation.
we have look at the events of violence in psycho-socio-economic-political context. all factors are important.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Luke Lieberman
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 3007 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Male, 33
Country: United States
Province/State: California
|
Re: Islamists pick another fight
August 4, 2006 - 06:36 PM
|
|
sweta - I have been watching Arab media villanize the Jews for a while now.
But really - again - the idea that there is a connection between terrorism and Islam is created by the terrorist groups which claim Islam as their inspiration.
if the blow up trains in Madrid or the Twin Towers - OF COURSE the media is going to cover the story.
and it is difficult to INGORE the very real connection between Islamic extremism and terrorism.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Shweta
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 234 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Chatterbox
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 32
Country: India
Province/State: Delhi
City: Delhi
|
extremism and terrorism
August 5, 2006 - 08:11 AM
|
|
instead of linking only islamic extremism and terrorism..let us try and look at the bigger picture. and that would be about the extremist ideolody and terrorism..along with the other social, political, economic and psychological factors.
in india , you find hindu extremism as well. you also find caste based extremism. you find region based discrimination as well. i find america's policy also extremist at times when i think of so many wars fought.in the world, there is also racial extremism. one can sense undercurrents even if people do not talk about things in open. so if i were to focus only on extremism in islam..that will be unfair i think.
what we need to fight against is any extremism which is linked wityh hatred, violence, and abuse of power.
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Desert ROSE
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 275 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: Jordan
|
Re: Radical Islamists pick another fight
August 10, 2006 - 01:48 PM
|
|
"On American television I see reps of the Israeli gov and of the Lebanese Gov - I even see Hezbullah spokespeople.
I have not seen alot of interviews with Israeli leaders done by the Arab media."luke
I have a question do you watch arabic news channels because if you do you wouldn't have said this statement because guess what when I watch the news specially on aljazeera TV ,I hear the news from both sides arabic and the other part and yes they make interviews with arabs ,americans ,europeans , israeli's .
"it would be foolish to ignore the ideological connection between all these groups"luke
it would be wrong not to consider what USA government is doing in the world and how this affects the people
"often these groups share a common goal of creating an Islamic regeime.
Those in the Phillipenes want to create their own independant Islamic country carved out of the Phillipenes -
how is that different than the Chechans? or Hamas? How is that different from what Hezbullah has basically already done? Or what Radical Islamic groups in Kashmir are trying to do?"luke
anyone who follows a specific party or has specific principles is going to try to let it be common thinking that since he's convinced in something then it's the right thing
now from these Hamas has been ellected but they didn't try to inforce their believes and principles on the people ,they said we are not going to force the people into something the don't want to be roled by
"when they hit the Jordan wedding? "luke
since you are talking about Jordan well guess what we don't think the way people expect us to think or more specifecly the world about what happened
"it is an particular interpretation of Islam, particulalry around the concept of Jihad - which serves to inspires these groups and also connects them ideologically. "luke
this is right in some cases when they put wrong interpretations to the verses or put explanstions to them which can serve their purposes
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
Desert ROSE
Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 275 (view all)
Poster Rank:
Blabbermouth
User is
Offline
Gender & Age: Female, 24
Country: Jordan
|
Re: Radical Islamists pick another fight
August 10, 2006 - 01:49 PM
|
|
"the perception being created all over the world is that people forllowing islam are terrorists! and thats a sad perception. when blasts hit mumbai.... people in delhi start becoming little bit distant from each other just beacuse they belong to different religions. so much mistust has been created. so much bitterness has entered the hearts of people that it is saddening.
of course not everybody hates everybody. there are people who try to maintain communal harmony. but whats spreading is the idealoody of hatred and mistrust. its not the ideolody of islam which leads to terrorism or loss of lives."Shweta-sj
that's true
"we have look at the events of violence in psycho-socio-economic-political context. all factors are important. "Shweta-sj
also true
"sweta - I have been watching Arab media villanize the Jews for a while now"luke
hmm weard luke which channels ,because I really don't notice that as I told you that inspite of everything that has been always going on in Palestine and the conflict they've never said anything that will make us have hatred feelings towards israel or any other country ....ofcource that has to do with the real democracy we are living in
"instead of linking only islamic extremism and terrorism..let us try and look at the bigger picture. and that would be about the extremist ideolody and terrorism..along with the other social, political, economic and psychological factors."Shweta-sj
I agree as you said terrorism is not connected to a specific religion it's a wode concept but the thing is that it seems that they concentrate alot in Islam and muslims
"in india , you find hindu extremism as well. you also find caste based extremism. you find region based discrimination as well. i find america's policy also extremist at times when i think of so many wars fought.in the world, there is also racial extremism. one can sense undercurrents even if people do not talk about things in open. so if i were to focus only on extremism in islam..that will be unfair i think.
what we need to fight against is any extremism which is linked wityh hatred, violence, and abuse of power. "Shweta-sj
right ,thanks for what you said
|
|
back to top |
link to this post
|
|
|
Display posts from:
|
