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Camilla Noble-Warren
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Is knowledge all there is to achieve?
September 8, 2001 - 06:59 AM
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Should education just be about learning knowledge (and skills) as it is now or should it also involve something to do with inspiring people to understand themselves and their relationships?
Which is more important?
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Camilla Noble-Warren
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What should the future be?
September 9, 2001 - 07:29 AM
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I assumed for myself that we need to create a society (and quickly too) where we share with and care for each other and the environment, we prevent wars etc. That is what everybody usually says they want. And so education should move towards achieving that.
We don't really have a choice though, we either do that or perish! I don't mean to sound scary but that is true right?
If it is how do we fix it??
Can knowledge etc. only, fix this world problem (so that it doesn't come back again)?
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Mike
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good question, why not take a look at what knowledge can do first.
September 9, 2001 - 12:39 PM
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I believe education should be about gaining knowlede, but also about learning how to implement that knowledge positively and dynamically.
That is, with the knowledge you gain about something. You must also have the understanding in how implementing those ideas put forward to you in school could change the future for the better, or for the worse.
Unfortunately, without a goal for the future in education, apart from being able to offer sustainable education there is no real point in teaching anything to do with the impact on the future, because no-ones decided what the future [I]should[I/] be.
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Pred.
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Mike
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hmmm
September 10, 2001 - 05:32 AM
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im not sure that we'd perish. Life always finds a way - and im a firm believer in that.
However, everyone deep in their hearts wants Utopia. Its those that get left out that want it to be destroyed.
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Robert Margolis
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Hmmm 2
September 10, 2001 - 07:51 AM
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I had a chance to think a little more on this area. On the question of teaching human values, it is a good idea. Of course in the US, everyone wants to teach values, what no one seems to agree on is which values to teach and how to teach them (values vs virtues).
If this discussion keeps going in the psychological/philosophical realm, we may have to move it to another forum/topic ;-)
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Robert Margolis
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Job Skills vs Life Skills
September 10, 2001 - 10:20 AM
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The discussion sounds like the proverbial conflict between those who think of school as a place to learn how to think and live, and those who simply see it as trade school. I believe this is a false choice: we need schools that both prepare people for what lies ahead AND with opportunities for their own development.
Unfortunately, most people (on both sides) say that such schools would be either too complicated to organize or too expensive. We need new thinking and initiatives to bring education out of the debates of the past and into a true relevancy.
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Camilla Noble-Warren
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Re: Is knowledge all there is to achieve?
September 10, 2001 - 11:30 AM
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I did not mean there was a conflict, both are obviously important, just that education at the moment is only concentrating on knowledge. And I believe that children should also be eucated in how be a human being! If you know what I mean, ..human excellence as well academic excellence, human values...
Pred , If we continue with our wars, which inevitably as technology develops, threatens the use of nuclear weapons, and we continue with the destruction of the environment the way we are going, and we continue to widen the gap between the rich and the poor, which leads to all sorts of disastrous side effects - where is that leading to?
It's probably true that something will happen to stop that, but that something, being ourselves, has to decide to do it.
If we were taught 'human values' (which means respect for each other, dealing with fear, love in general) as children, we would be more likely to curb the causes of war, etc. Because the cause of most human problems is how we are psychologically.
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Robert Margolis
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Hmmm...
September 10, 2001 - 11:56 AM
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An interesting premise: our problems is mostly caused by our psychology. Do you include the basic human longings in this idea (e.g. will to live, see children grow up, be accepted by social group, etc)? In such a case I would agree. The question arises as to which aspects of our problems are best solved by a psychological approach vs an economic, political or technical path.
One your discussion of our environmental problems, I would like to refer to a recent article in the economist:
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_id=718860
(sometimes the articles are password protected, if so my apologies in advance)
This article describes how things are not QUITE as bad as often portrayed in the press. We certainly have environmental problems AND the problems of economic/political haves and havenots, however the problems are within solution so long as we are will to take the initiative.
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Mike
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Camilla . . .
September 11, 2001 - 04:57 AM
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Im not sure where i said i wanted to keep life the way it was, and keep it on the path its heading along.
If it turned out that way, i meant totally the opposite.
We need a new direction for humanity. New responsibilities for everyone. New goals for a new order of governing for the world.
If not, its not the nuclear weapons that'll get us. It will be the technological and moral divide near certain in the future, that will cause us to fail as a global civilisation.
This i believe with all my strength.
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Camilla Noble-Warren
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Re: Is knowledge all there is to achieve?
September 23, 2001 - 04:29 AM
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I have found a site describing a branch of schools that teach human values, it has examples of lesson plans on the website: http://www.sathyasaiehv.org.uk/
It has many success stories, apparently a school in Zambia had 'delinquents' coming in to the school who nobody could handle, and they came out as top students in their country.(I don't remember all the details very well) Teaching more holistically tends to help students to be more comfortable and then do better in academics. There was a story of child going home after attending one of these schools and helping their parent to give up being an alcoholic using values they had been taught. So it also has knock on effects.
I also found this with a few relevant links : http://www.putnampit.com/educate.html
Please also look at a book called 'The beginnings of learning' by Jiddu Krishnamurti. It is mind boggling.
There is a book review here:
http://www.wild-e.org/cue/oncue_archive/July99/Mackenzie.html
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Camilla Noble-Warren
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Re: Is knowledge all there is to achieve?
September 23, 2001 - 05:02 AM
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Good, isn't it? 
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Camilla Noble-Warren
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Re: Is knowledge all there is to achieve?
September 23, 2001 - 05:04 AM
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Yup!
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Robert Margolis
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Very Fascinating Website
September 23, 2001 - 07:06 AM
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Camilla -
The website was an eye-opener. Of course in the US, the politicians and the general public only want good test scores and skilled/obedient workers. I think their dream is for all students to study math, science, engineering, and shut up. ;-)
Don't get me wrong, I studied engineering at university, however sometimes our ideas and goals are too timid. Then when social problems arise, we scratch our heads.
Also, as an engineering graduate, I was dismayed to read in this week's Economist that Osama Bin Laden got his undergraduate degree in ENGINEERING. I bet he would get great test scores on those standard exams. ;-)
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Mike
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just a little proverb.
September 24, 2001 - 09:19 AM
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just a little proverb - "There are those who take knowledge and turn it into discovery, then there are others who teach - so the journey can begin."
So there you go!
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JJ
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My experience...
April 30, 2004 - 08:34 AM
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"Wisdom" education combined with an "intellectual/information" education is ideal. I often fall into utter despair thinking about the time we are currently living in....where wisdom doesnt have much justice served, at all...such an ignorant world we are living in. Hopefully today we can establish policy/centers/something to ensure that wisdom is more justly served in the future. Of course, wisdom is always going to be over-shadowed by ignorance in some way...and the ignorant will keep on wanting and shouting, until that humble day comes when truth/wisdom is finally sparked. We should find more ways for this "spark" to be ignited. It takes quite an inquiring mind..an extremely inquiring mind today, to start on a path of wisdom. I pondered this question regarding these two types of education awhile back...my solution was, in this day and time, it had to be taken upon myself to explore wisdom further, which I did/am doing now. I apologize if this appears/sounds depressing or egocentric!.. anyway...
There are quite a few expensive schools out there doing this today. There are also quite a few wonderful non-profit centers which provide insight into truth/wisdom. What to do...
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