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mike stone
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The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 11:36 AM
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The following web site shows how great islam is and it is the reilgion of peace.
If you scroll all the way to the bottom you will see how they are so peaceful.
Happy Holidays
Mike.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 01:00 AM
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I was talking specifically about the School system - where basically Middle-eastern history simply is not really taught at all - the focus is on American History first, European second, and African third (especially insofar as it applies to African Americans).
There is no teaching in schools which labels Muslims as "apes and pigs" or teaches intolerance toward them - perhaps certain racist teachers (I assume there must be some) but it is certainly not in the textbooks - you are welcome to look it up.
But what is amazing to me is that you see this picture of a woman strapping a bomb to her child and you are talking to me about the problem in AMERICAN culture - give me a break.
I have a question I would like to throw back at you - in the thread that was closed I said that the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were reactions to 9/11
you replied that the US was already in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Now do you beleive this or are you in the habit of just saying the opposite of whatever I say?
I think it is the latter - but please prove me wrong and show me how the US was in Afghanistan on Sept 10th.
I am asking because I know for a fact we were not - it was a big logistical problem - we did not even have CIA in there anymore, they were all in Pakistan - and we suddenly had to figure out how to wage a campeign.
Also I never heard you comment back to me on the UN study I sourced which anylized textbooks in Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
These are not 'some schools' this was a random sampling of the entire country.
Now I hear the head of the Muslim Brotherhood denying the Hollocaust -
I have heard not just Amira and Chibi - but other kids particularly from Egypt over the years either deny the Hollocaust or expressing openly racist attitudes toward Jews.
I think it has something to do with how they are taught - educational reform is clearly an issue.
A friend from Iraq (Shia) wrote me privately that he finnally understood what the Hollocaust was and he was very sorry to hear about it and understand the truth of it - he was in college, and highly intelligent - but he grew up with the impression that it was all just a lie circulated by Israel.
A number of Muslim kids have asked me privately to prove to them that the Jews did not have prior knowledge of 9/11 - another racist conspiracy which circulates through the middle-east.
I am sorry - and I am certainly not trying to be biased - but objectively it is clear that the theocracies and lack of secular education has created an atmosphere of racism in the Middle-east which is simply beyond what is present in modern western societies.
I don't think racism is taught in Islam - I have studied Islam.
But Racism is not taught in Christianity either - that did not stop Southern racists in the US from quoting the Bible as they hung Blacks from trees.
and basically portions of the Middle-east seem socially to be where the American South or Europe was in the first half of this century in terms of intolerance and racism.
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mike stone
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 01:04 AM
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Can someone please explain all the Islamicfascist terror attacks at the bottom of that site. You can also see past years. There are hundreds if not thousands. Somebody should get their store in order before they condemn others. I don't think it's just about the US either,I think they just hate and kill.
Most of those attacks were against innocent muslems. What are these people trying to accomplish.
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mike stone
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Arslanik
Luke,
I will post a question to you. (The pathetic and extremely ignorant Islamophobe who put that website is not worthy of my time). Is this what you call just "a lack of information" in America about Islam?
Arslan
I would imagine when someone has there eyes opened, the only way to deal with it is to lash out at the person showing the truth.
If you want, show me a web site disproving all those attacks.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by proudamerican
Islam in general is a peaceful religion,just like the christians and the jews. But there are alway extremists that give it a bad name. I'm not an Islamophobe and am not ignorant either. But things need to be done to straighten out these people,before it's to late.
This is a different attitude. If you started your post with such an attitude instead of insulting sarcasm, I would respond differently.
Can someone please explain all the Islamicfascist terror attacks at the bottom of that site.
This is one of the ways of demonizing Islam. The word you use "Islamicfascist terror" is insulting. It coneys a message that there is a form of fascism and terror in Islam--withing religion, which is not true. You also admitted Islam to be a peaceful religion, and that there are people who give it a bad name.
I would imagine when someone has there eyes opened, the only way to deal with it is to lash out at the person showing the truth.
If you want, show me a web site disproving all those attacks.
What is terrorism? Sometimes an act is "terrorism" for someone, but a "struggle for freedom" for another one. For example, those who attack American military in Iraq consider themselves "freedom fighters" while Americans consider them "terrorists."
Now, there is no question there is terrorism. And there is some truth in the website you provided, but it is designed in such a way that a person who does not have any knowledge of Islam and socio-economic factors that also influence terrorists, will get a VERY negative image of Islam.
I do not have time to refute or admit every single act mentioned in the website, nor do I have energy to do so.
The website starts with a picture of a woman putting a bomb on a child's body with the headline "Behold the Peace of Islam: Picture of the Week." Now, show me where Islam -- the Qur'an, Hadiths, Unanimity of the Ummah -- teach suicide bombing. Where? The act is ascribed to Islam with an insulting sarcasm. Where is the Islamic justification for it?
Here are some statements form the website:
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
Of course, this is an outright lie.
19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals put to death in the last 65 years.
Just in its invasion of Iraq, the US military killed more Iraqi civilians than all 26 Al-Qaeda terrorist attacks in the last five years.
So, should we then generalize about ENTIRE AMERICA?
...and pretty much wherever Muslims believe their religion tells them to:
"Fight and slay the Unbelievers wherever ye find them. Seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war."
Qur'an, Sura 9:5
Here is another pathetic way of demonizing Islam. It's amazing that Islomophobes interpret this verse on their own way and for some reason they assume -- hell, they try to convince us, MUSLIMS!!! -- that Muslims interpret this verse the way Islamophobes do.
The verse was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, on the 9th year of Hijrah. It was about Meccan polytheists who had inflicted innumerable sufferings upon Muslims: they had humiliated, tortured, even killed, and eventually expelled Muslims from Mecca. Meccan polytheists and Muslims had several wars. Finally, Mecca was taken by Muslims, and the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, pardoned everyone but 4 persons. Meccans were given generous property -- in fact more than to Medinans. After all those events, some Meccan polytheists were still wrecking havoc in Mecca. In the 9th year of Hijra, the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, sent his Companions with a message to Medica. The verse above was part of it and it's about CERTAIN Meccan polytheists who were murderers. It's NOT a ageneral command to Muslims to kill all non-Muslims.
The general command for Muslims, as it's interpreted by mainstream Islam, is this: There is no compulsion in Islam. Holy Qur'an: 2-256
These are but few examples of blatant inaccuracies of the website. I do not have time, nor energy, to deal with every single issue there. If you refer to specific cases, when we can discuss it.
Luke,
But what is amazing to me is that you see this picture of a woman strapping a bomb to her child and you are talking to me about the problem in AMERICAN culture - give me a break.
I answered to ProudAmerican about this. What I am telling you is that I have talked to many Americans who look at such websites -- which are, no question, intended at inciting hatred -- and take them for granted without employing the minimum elements of critical thinking. Yet without any knowledge of Islam.
I think it is the latter - but please prove me wrong and show me how the US was in Afghanistan on Sept 10th.
Luke, I have read you discussing this issue with Udara and Haseeb. They referred to how US helped Al-Qaeda members in their war against the USSR. There is nothing more I can add.
Also I never heard you comment back to me on the UN study I sourced which anylized textbooks in Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
I thought I did. I said that such schools should go through a radical reform, or simply closed down. I condemn them in the sharpest manner. I also called in that thread our Muslim fellows to condemn Anti-Semitism existing in the Muslim world. I said, no one should think "Jews are bad." It seems, you haven't read them.
Didn't you say yourself that I spoke up against Anti-Semitism?
I don't think racism is taught in Islam - I have studied Islam.
But Racism is not taught in Christianity either - that did not stop Southern racists in the US from quoting the Bible as they hung Blacks from trees.
Thank you for that. I also don't believe all these fascist, neo-nazi ideas about Jews controlling the world, or inventing the Holocaust, etc.
Arslan
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mike stone
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 05:17 AM
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But we are not talking about America here.I don't know why it was used as an example. The web site clearly shows Terrorist attacks carried out by islam. It dosen't say American terrorist attacks.If you want to talk about that start another thread. It clearly shows Islam terrorist attacks.
That picture of the woman and her son is a scary picture. How could a mother strap that on her son and tell him to go blow himself up.Do you think she told him before he did it it was for Allah? This child must have been taught hate somewhere.
Why are most of the terrorist attacks against muslems?
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Sotoodeh
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 06:17 AM
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[]
-
Being a Muslim is something to be proud of and a pleasure to be part of something BIG!!
My Precious friends:
Islam is not about "Terrorism", "Extremist", "America" or whatever..
Islam = "Justice" and "Peace"!!
Let's look at it from another angle this time!!
- Mike, thank you very much for the website!!And thank you for persuading on spreading peace around!!
-
[]
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Udara
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 09:23 AM
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What you guys do not understand is the socio economic factors which are conducive for the suicide bombing. Imagine your selves having your houses bombed for no reason of yours.
I dont deny the ideaological factors but obviously it is not enough. Even christianity can be interpreted the KKK ways easily.
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mike stone
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by udara2004
What you guys do not understand is the socio economic factors which are conducive for the suicide bombing. Imagine your selves having your houses bombed for no reason of yours.
I dont deny the ideaological factors but obviously it is not enough. Even christianity can be interpreted the KKK ways easily.
Thats still not an excuse for blowing up innocent people.
The differance is the KKK dosen't blow themselves up along with woman and children.
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Udara
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by proudamerican
[QUOTE]Originally posted by udara2004
[B]What you guys do not understand is the socio economic factors which are conducive for the suicide bombing. Imagine your selves having your houses bombed for no reason of yours.
I dont deny the ideaological factors but obviously it is not enough. Even christianity can be interpreted the KKK ways easily.
Thats still not an excuse for blowing up innocent people.
The differance is the KKK dosen't blow themselves up along with woman and children.[/B][/QUOTE]
NOw come on bro, nobody will try to give excuses here. I am merely trying to point out factors.
And what exactly mean by saying that KKK doesnt blow themselves up? Does blowing up matters?
And dont forget that the LTTE suicide bombers in Sri Lanka are actually secular. And they are the ones who actually invented proper methods of suicide bombing in the world.
Bro my school was bombed by a LTTE suicide bomber 12 years or so. And i do know how it is like to be a victim of suicide bombing as thousands of people in my country including my friends had died that way.
I am not trying to excuse suicide bombing but trying to point out that your vision on the whole matter is extremely narrow. Most know what the media is feeding you and media wants you to know. So i am not surprised in your next mail if u claim that you are totally unaware of LTTE nor their secular suicide bombing past.
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Udara
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 10:12 AM
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Just a funny remark,
Here in USA, whenever i speak about LTTE and their suicide past, most Americans give me one answer.
LTTE.... Suicide bombing..... Are they Muslim????
This shows how the American public had been brainwashed to believe that suicide bombing is a essentialn part of Islam.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 11:40 AM
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"Thats still not an excuse for blowing up innocent people. The differance is the KKK dosen't blow themselves up along with woman and children." - Proud American
not sure if I agree with you - I think these arganizations were basically the same - racist - only the methods were different.
It is worth disscussing the methods - but Al Qaeda and the KKK are not that far apart really.
"This shows how the American public had been brainwashed to believe that suicide bombing is a essentialn part of Islam." - Udara
don't be silly - there is no brainwashing - perhaps just some ignorance.
the connection between suicide bombing and Islam is made on the subject of "Jihad" - which is very VOCAL - and somehow the conept of Jihad seems to jive with suicide bombing perfectly - unfortunately.
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mike stone
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by udara2004
Just a funny remark,
Here in USA, whenever i speak about LTTE and their suicide past, most Americans give me one answer.
LTTE.... Suicide bombing..... Are they Muslim????
This shows how the American public had been brainwashed to believe that suicide bombing is a essentialn part of Islam.
We aren't brainwashed,but when everytime you open a paper or watch the news another Islamicfanatic has blown themselves up and taken innocent woman and children with them. You tend to believe that they are all islamic.If all you see is black cars on the street,then soon you will believe that all cars are black.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 12:01 PM
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Luke,
I will post a question to you. (The pathetic and extremely ignorant Islamophobe who put that website is not worthy of my time). Is this what you call just "a lack of information" in America about Islam?
Arslan
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mike stone
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Re: The religion of peace.
December 24, 2005 - 12:22 PM
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I don't think all of those terrorist attacks are lies.
You don't have to answer,I understand. But there are problems in that religion that should be fixed.
Islam in general is a peaceful religion,just like the christians and the jews. But there are alway extremists that give it a bad name. I'm not an Islamophobe and am not ignorant either. But things need to be done to straighten out these people,before it's to late.
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