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stevez
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American Hiroshima
December 3, 2005 - 09:15 AM
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Do a search on this if you haven't heard of it and state your ideas on it.I've been reading about it on and off for a few months and it is frightening.If this would ever come to pass not only America would change but the world as well.It would affect everyone.
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stevez
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 9, 2005 - 06:40 AM
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Nobody wants to comment on this.There is plenty of evidence this could happen.
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Injy
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 14, 2005 - 07:14 AM
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Sorry stevez, did you mean the American massacre in Hiroshima?
If that is what you mean, certainly, it is a frightening another dark spot in the American history. I was fortunate enough to actually visit Hiroshima city. You do should see the Hiroshima Peace Museum, and the detailed descritpion of the planning for dropping the bomb, and the devasting destruction in the aftermath of Hiroshima bomb. What was really so surprising to me that the Japanese do not refer to America or the American in desciring their agony, rather they refer to it with 'BB' or 'Big Boy'.
The touching story which you must have read about it, and very skilfully tunred into part of the Japanese literature, and worlwide children literature in particular is the 1000 Crane story of Sadako Sasaki. I have seen hundreds of children queuing to place their origami-made cranes in Sadaki's memorial in Hiroshima.
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stevez
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 14, 2005 - 12:21 PM
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No I am talking about Al Quedas plan to detonate nuclear devices in 5 american cities at one time to destroy us,and possibly the rest of the world.
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stevez
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 14, 2005 - 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Injy
Sorry stevez, did you mean the American massacre in Hiroshima?
If that is what you mean, certainly, it is a frightening another dark spot in the American history. I was fortunate enough to actually visit Hiroshima city. You do should see the Hiroshima Peace Museum, and the detailed descritpion of the planning for dropping the bomb, and the devasting destruction in the aftermath of Hiroshima bomb. What was really so surprising to me that the Japanese do not refer to America or the American in desciring their agony, rather they refer to it with 'BB' or 'Big Boy'.
The touching story which you must have read about it, and very skilfully tunred into part of the Japanese literature, and worlwide children literature in particular is the 1000 Crane story of Sadako Sasaki. I have seen hundreds of children queuing to place their origami-made cranes in Sadaki's memorial in Hiroshima.
Unfortunatly I don't see it as a dark spot in American history.If the US had invaded Japan as they had planned they estimated American casualties to be almost 1 million.
I see Japans bombing of Pearl harbor as a dark spot in Japanese history,if they didn't do that the atomic bombs may not have been used.
You see it your way and I see it mine.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 15, 2005 - 03:45 AM
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Stevez,
Before we comment on your question, please tell us where you take the info that Al-Qaeda is planning to drop five atomic bombs on the US land.
Note: I haven't accepted to rejected your claim yet. I am just asking for sources.
Arslan
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Injy
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 15, 2005 - 07:45 AM
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Would not be more regarding to 'Human Rights' to consider casualties on both sides, not only 'estimated American casualties to be almost 1 million'!!!
According to wikipedia.
In Pearl Harbour, 3.604 Americans (military+civilians killed and injured) to 80.000 Japanese in Hiroshima (only), not to speak of the damage of the city and not also to mention that the bomb was planned to be dropped on the Hiroshima Hospital, but diverted to be dropped on the municipal building.
Anyway, you are having your view and I have mine, and we surely have different system of equation!
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stevez
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 15, 2005 - 11:07 AM
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do you have a comment on the other part.The part that was I originally wanted to discuss.
It's very typical of this site that one question is asked and another is answered'The answer is usually how the US hurt someone or killed thousands.
It was war,and japan was real "big"on civil rights at the time.
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stevez
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 16, 2005 - 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by Arslanik
Stevez,
Before we comment on your question, please tell us where you take the info that Al-Qaeda is planning to drop five atomic bombs on the US land.
Note: I haven't accepted to rejected your claim yet. I am just asking for sources.
Arslan
They aren't planning on dropping them.What they plan is to use small ones and use trucks to place them.
If you do a search for American Hiroshima you will see plenty of stories.
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Injy
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 17, 2005 - 09:36 AM
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So 'stories' not 'facts'.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 18, 2005 - 12:26 PM
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Most things written in newspapers are stories.
The fact would be when American cities are destroyed by nuclear devices.
Like I said before do a search.
http://www.financialsense.com/storm.../2005/0722.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D99265B2-4402-46FE-A905-1F086F513A3D.htm
If after you read the stories and think they are all just stories,I think you better wake up because this can happen.
Thanks for links, Stevez. I decided to check them since you provided us with something finally.
The first one is a joke. KGB is behind Al-Qaeda? KGB is behind 7/7 in London?
Stevez, Cold War is over. Russians are not interested in bombing America with nukes or helping Al-Qaeda to do so. If they were, you would've already had them on your land.
The second link you provided is wonderful. Thank you very much, Stevez! I decided to put it here so that everybody will read it.
American Hiroshima – the next 9/11?
by Shaheen Chughtai in London
Friday 25 November 2005 10:55 PM GMT
Author David Dionisi says the US faces a nuclear threat
When Australian police announced recently that eight men arrested on terrorism charges were planning a bomb attack against a nuclear reactor near Sydney, many security observers elsewhere were not surprised.
Officials and analysts in the United States have been warning that al-Qaida or associated groups are planning such attacks on American soil.
Dubbed American Hiroshima, the plan apparently targets New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Boston and Washington, DC.
Former US Defence Secretary William Perry says there is an even chance of a nuclear attack on the US this decade. Renowned investor Warren Buffet has predicted "a nuclear terrorist attack ... is inevitable".
David Dionisi, a former US army intelligence officer, is convinced that plans for a nuclear attack are under way.
Once a conservative Republican, Dionisi enjoyed success as a Fortune 500 business executive after leaving the army. But he later rejected his political beliefs and now advocates peace, social justice and humanitarianism.
In his new book, American Hiroshima, Dionisi argues decades of unjust US foreign policies will be largely to blame for sowing the seeds of hostility and vengeance which could lead to a nuclear catastrophe.
Aljazeera's Shaheen Chughtai caught up with Dionisi in London.
Dionisi had just flown from Liberia where he helps run a Catholic orphanage.
Aljazeera.net: You were once a conservative Republican. What made you change your beliefs?
Dionisi: The transformation was a discovery process. When I joined the military, I had a very limited view of what the US was doing around the world. Through my experiences as a military intelligence officer and later as a business executive doing international volunteer work, I started to see our foreign policies were often hurting people and making the world more dangerous.
One of the more dramatic moments in this process was when I was assigned to a unit focusing on implementing US foreign policy in central America. I was part of a rapid deployment team designed to go in and suppress forces working for social justice in places such as Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Guatemala.
AJ: You describe the US public as uninformed - why?
D: The major media outlets are owned by a handful of corporations interested in promoting advertising and pro-government messages. Anything that challenges the existing power structure very often fails to receive air time. I highlight Fox as an extreme example of the Republican propaganda machine.
But when your country is fighting a war, you have an obligation to understand what's really going on. If you don't, you can become an agent of injustice. If people can find the time to watch baseball or soccer etc, they can make an effort to read, travel, talk and not be limited to the messages of fear.
They also need to understand their history. In 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented a plan called Operation Northwood, which is now declassified. It proposed conducting mass casualty attacks on American targets and blaming it on Cuba to rally public support for war against Fidel Castro. President Kennedy rejected the plan. So we shouldn't just assume any future attack on our soil is the work of al-Qaida.
AJ: Your book condemns alliances with repressive regimes. Can't these be justified if they serve a greater cause?
D: History teaches us that when you form alliances that promote injustice, you can only expect injustice in the future. Kindness begets kindness and the inverse is also true.
The US fought the largest secret war in its history during the 1980s in Afghanistan - over $6bn was funnelled into that war. As a result, US collaboration with and responsibility for al-Qaida goes well beyond what most even informed Americans understand.
If you consider that there are over 500 prisoners in Guantanamo Bay from over 40 countries - though not a single one is from Iraq - and that the CIA recruited thousands of people from over 40 countries to be part of that war - none from Iraq - you can better understand how the US played a direct role in creating what became the Taliban and al-Qaida.
AJ: Bush supporters argue the removal of Saddam and the Taliban was beneficial and therefore justified military action.
D: That starts from an artificial premise. When the Bush administration says, "Well, it's great that Saddam's gone," it fails to acknowledge that Bush's father and President Ronald Reagan were key forces that helped create Saddam Hussein.
Looking at what happened in 1979 it can put a lot of this in perspective. As Reagan came into office, the US embassy hostages in Iran were released after 444 days in captivity. Americans don't know this wasn't a coincidence. The US had agreed in writing not to attack Iran and also paid Tehran $8bn. That's why that media event (of the hostages' release during Reagan's inauguration ceremony) occurred with such precise timing.
AJ: How do you know this?
D: These are facts that were subsequently published. The agreement with Iran was submitted for review by the current administration to see if it would be binding and prevent an attack in the near future.
Bush administration attorneys concluded it was signed under duress and therefore not binding. I know this from a former senior member of the Bush administration, a seasoned CIA officer named Ray Flynn.
The US felt humiliated; the Reagan administration wanted to hurt the Iranians but its hands were tied. So Saddam Hussein was used as the agent for that. He ended up invading Iran ... and you had this brutal war from 1980 to 1988 that killed over a million people.
AJ: What was the US role in that war?
D: By 1982, Iran had recaptured lost territory and Saddam asked the US for help. So President Reagan signed a National Security Decision Directive - NSDD 114 - to provide all means of support to Saddam Hussein. Donald Rumsfeld then went on a very sensitive mission to deliver satellite intelligence, other forms of intelligence and weapons of mass destruction (WMD).
That's why the current Bush administration was so confident Saddam had chemical and biological weapons; they knew the US had supplied the ingredients in the 1980s.
Saddam broke with the US, however, when he found out we were selling weapons to Iran in the mid-1980s - the Iran-Contra affair. All this puts the invasion of Kuwait into perspective. Saddam got clear messages from the US saying he could invade; plus he felt the US owed him one after betraying him over Iran.
All these wars form a continuum of injustice. Look at the UN economic sanctions in the 1990s that the US and UK refused to lift: over a million Iraqis died, including 500,000 children. That's more than the number who died from the Nagasaki and Hiroshima atomic bombings.
AJ: You list numerous "unjust" actions that led to attacks on US targets - isn't that justifying terrorism?
D: I talked to the CIA's Michael Scheuer, head of the "find Bin Ladin" team, and he stresses that people in the Muslim world are not fighting us because of our freedoms or elections but our foreign policy. This is something the Bush administration constantly twists.
The basic principle is: if you hurt someone, they're going to want to hurt you. We need to ask questions like: Why did 9/11 happen? Bin Ladin has a very clear articulation of why he's at war with the US, Britain, Israel and others. If Americans read it, they'll see it's very clear about things such as US forces on Arab land.
And it's not just an Arab or Muslim issue. I learnt this in South Korea where the US has had troops since 1950. When you're there that long, it sends a powerful message that you're not there to liberate, you're there to occupy.
AJ: You describe the US as the biggest WMD proliferator. Why?
D: The US has spent $5 trillion on 70,000 nuclear weapons since 1945 - more than the rest of the world combined. A Congressional report in 1999 found the designs for every deployed nuclear warhead - and for some not built yet - had been stolen and passed to China. Israel acquired its programme from the US too.
Despite this, ordinary Americans are more concerned about the Bush administration's lies and hyped-up warnings about WMD in places such as Iraq.
AJ: Is Iran really a threat to the US? An alliance between Shia Iran and Sunni-led al-Qaida seems far fetched.
D: Iran will not attack the US if the US does not attack Iran. Congressman Curt Weldon (who accuses Tehran of plotting to attack the States) talks about attacking Iran but such talk makes the world more dangerous. If we were Iran, we'd develop nuclear weapons simply because Israel has them. So the US should facilitate a process whereby Israel eliminates its nuclear weapons.
As for the religious differences between Iran and al-Qaida, yes, that's been true - but Bush's War on Terror has been pushing the sects together. Intelligence reports indicate Bin Ladin's son Saad has been based in Iran. No, we can't be certain they're helping each other. But in any case, the Bush administration does not want peace with Iran.
AJ: You say "kindness begets kindness". What's your evidence?
D: After the first world war, the Treaty of Versailles punished Germany harshly, producing hardship and hostility that the Nazis exploited. But after the second world war, when the Marshall Plan helped rebuild Germany and Japan, the US did more to promote democracy than at any time during the Cold war.
To make the world a safer place, we must aggressively attack the causes of suffering and hostility. Imagine if Bush had said after 9/11: "People are capitalising on our mistakes in the Middle East. So, let's ensure there is no hunger, lack of clean water, lack of education etc in the Muslim world." We would have made more friends and drained support for our enemies.
AJ: If we can't expect US foreign policy to change soon, isn't it too late to stop an American Hiroshima?
D: It's not too late although your point is realistic. But we can still influence the US response. Far more people will die in the retaliation and the counter-retaliation.
If the US had the wisdom, we could make the world safer. The US military budget was over $420 billion in 2005. We could split that three ways: a third on economic development in the Middle East, especially Iraq; a third on tackling injustice at home, such as providing universal healthcare - and that would still leave us with the world's biggest military budget.
People have to become more involved. The anti-Vietnam war movement is an example - but it failed to hold government to account. If we had tried (former Defence Secretary) Robert McNamara or (former Secretary of State) Henry Kissinger for crimes such as the illegal bombing of Cambodia, it would have sent a powerful message to future leaders. The Bush government today wouldn't have been so bold.
Ultimately, Americans need to understand many of them will die and parts of their country will become uninhabitable unless they hold their government to account.
Aljazeera
By Shaheen Chughtai in London
You can find this article at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D99265B2-4402-46FE-A905-1F086F513A3D.htm
Thank you very much, Stevez!
Arslan
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stevez
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 18, 2005 - 12:52 PM
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As far as you are concerned it's all Americas fault.No matter what I find it will end up being Americas fault.
Have a nice life.
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Arslan Jumaniyazov
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 19, 2005 - 05:16 AM
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As far as you are concerned it's all Americas fault.No matter what I find it will end up being Americas fault. Have a nice life.
Excuse me, I didn't say, never said or ever implied, that everything is America's fault. As for my previous post, I simply copy/pasted the info from the link YOU provided us with. So, if the stuff is "Anti-American," the blame goes for you, not me.
Have a nice life, too!
Arslan
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stevez
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Re: American Hiroshima
December 20, 2005 - 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by Arslanik
[QUOTE]As far as you are concerned it's all Americas fault.No matter what I find it will end up being Americas fault. Have a nice life.
Excuse me, I didn't say, never said or ever implied, that everything is America's fault. As for my previous post, [b]I simply copy/pasted the info from the link YOU provided us with. So, if the stuff is "Anti-American," the blame goes for you, not me.
Have a nice life, too!
Arslan[/B][/QUOTE]
Iam not talking about the link I am talking of your general attitude.
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Injy
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1945 A Boms Dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
December 22, 2005 - 06:33 AM
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I am quoting a book:
Stewart, Robert. The Illustrated Almanac of Historical Facts:From the Dawn of the Christian Era to the New World Order. New York : Prentice Hall, 1992.
President Truman greeted the news that the first atomic bomb had been dropped with the words. 'This is the greatest thing in history.' The date was August 6, 1945. The target was the Japanese city of Hiroshima. The bomb, made from uranium-235 and called 'Litlle Boy', was carried by a B-29 Superfortress bomber, named Enola Gay. It weighed four tons, it had the power of 13.000 tons of high explosive. Dropped from a height of 31.000 feet, it exploded at 1.900 feet. Between 75.000 and 100.000 people died in the fireball and blast wave.
On August 9 a second, plutonium, A-bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. It killed over 80.000 people. The city was flattened. Within five years nearly half a million people died of radiation effects from the two bombs. The bombings had their intended effect. Emperor Hirohito announced Japan's surrender on August 10. The formal surrender took place on September 2 on board the U.S.S. Missouri. In 1959 Truman said, at Columbia University, that dropping the atom bom was no 'great decision. It was merely another powerful weapon in the arsenal of righteousness.'
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