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Roselle
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[Poll] The proof is in the experience of communion
November 13, 2005 - 06:54 AM
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God: myth?? Religion: true?? People aren't believing anymore, why?? The youth is now more exceptical than ever and what do you think is the cause?? Are they just bed-time stories to make people behave or is there something or someone divine and superior??
Is there something or someone divine and superior??
Of course there is!! No doubts!!
(15 votes for 62.5%)
Maybe. . . I'm not sure but it's possible.
(5 votes for 20.83%)
Ohh come on!! There's no such thing!!
(3 votes for 12.5%)
I don't know and I really don't care!!
(1 votes for 4.17%)
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James Dagger
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
November 16, 2005 - 06:14 AM
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Its all in the hands of the believer, personally i consider myself to be agnostic after spending many years of my still young and idealistic life believing in one mighty being.
I could never get my head around a single being responsible for all in a world were chaos seemed to run wild. There is evil in the world, there always will be, but to balance there're the vitures of the heavenly being placed in the people touched by a sense of spirituality. These people, saints and otherwise, created great works of beauty inspiring others and challenging people's individual sense of morality and ethics.
For now, ive decided to sit on the fence, but its all the the hands of believer and there belief to realise whether their capacity to achieve is limitless.
Its good to be back.
James "netdude" Dagger
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Brian
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
November 30, 2005 - 04:33 AM
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God is out there waiting for us to find....
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IcY bLUE
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He is waiting for us
December 1, 2005 - 01:22 AM
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I agree..God is out there, He wants us to find Him, I am trying to..its difficul to put ure trust and faith all in one..but when you ultimatley do, i believe things will be different..
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Azira Aziz
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
December 1, 2005 - 02:55 AM
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I have waaaay to many inexplanable experiences to discount the existence of God. Let's just put it this way; He never quit reminding me He's around.
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Roselle
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Why?!
January 7, 2006 - 10:32 AM
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Ok, let's believe there's someone or something superior. Why are there millions of innocent people suffering??
Did "God" punished them?? Has "God" accepted their situation?? I believe religion helps a lot and faith too cause it's something positive to people but, be realistic things happen because of us, not because someone or something superior made it happen.
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johannes edinger
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think about it.
January 8, 2006 - 01:31 AM
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Probably one of the biggest questions out there hey? I guess we should look at it intellectually, im sure "he" would want it that way, after all if "he" could want anything that means he has created us as intellectuals... okay tangent.. anyway..
A problem appears when one takes a widely accepted position of essentially claiming that god is both benevolent and omnipotent. This is a misconception because if we look at the state of the world it is a contradiction. God cannot be both benevolent and omnipotent. Now the beauty ( and room for endless discussion) lies in the idea that god has created us with free will. This allows for a benvolent god that has relinquished his omnipotence. This would also allow for the wold to be in the state that it is (with wars, famine, poverty, suffering) etc... because logically one could argue that this is the doing of humanity's expression of if free will. That evil is perpetuated by the free will of humans. This idea removes any responsibility (other than that of establishing free will in the first place) for the state of the world from our benevolent god.
There is plenty of contradicting evidence... but really its comparing apples to oranges... i mean we can talk about evolution and its evident dissolution of any kind of creation theory... but creation theory intrinsically accounts for what we percieve to be evolution in the sense that it simply states that the world was created as it is today.. evolution and all being simply a part of that creation.
I think a strong argument for theists today is that of a universal moral code. Say what you will.. but i know right from wrong, and i believe that comes from a deeper place that what my parents taught me or what ive seen on TV. I am still struggling with cultural differences that conflict with my moral code.. because this would eliminate any sort of universiality that is required to present this sort of phenomenon as evidence... but isnt it uncanny how SO MUCH of the world thinks the same things are right and the same things are wrong. Freud, an stout atheist for all of his life, wrote "i cannot explain why, Myself and my children, have become such fundamentally good human beings" He couldent explain why people do things out of the goodnes of their hearts, it didnt make sense from a biological standpoint. So he came up with some theory about how when we were cavemen, some clan leader killed his dad and the emotions he experienced were the beggings of what we call guilt and how we inherited these emotions and their bearings on our actions.. it was soon discovered that emotions are not inherited and freud himself renouced this work as perhaps not entirely accurate.
I think we should be objective and serious when we make these decisions of whether or not to believe... read, and think.
If you decided to believe, make it an intellectual decision, because it can be.
goodnight.
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Patricia Kumar
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
January 8, 2006 - 04:44 AM
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"beliving in god is more important than proving he exists"
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Saladin
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
January 8, 2006 - 05:58 AM
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-People aren't believing anymore, why??- Posted by Roselle
I don't think this statement is accurate, since it only describes the situation in the west, which is totally difference than its counterpart in the Muslim world from Senegal to Indonesia, and from Somalia to Bashkiriya.
The Muslim world is experiencing a massive retreat towards religion these years, mainly because of difficult political, economic, and social circumstances, and because of the failure of the socialist regimes to solve these problems during the mid 20th century: people want something where they find "solutions".
From a Muslim point of view, suffering does not indicate that God is malicious, since there is the principle of reward and punishment, following a certain "test", which can be seen in a hard, or even an easy situation to which a human is exposed.
[AlifLâmMîm. Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allâh will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test). Or those who do evil deeds think that they can outstrip Us (i.e. escape Our Punishment)? Evil is that which they judge! Whoever hopes for the Meeting with Allâh, then Allâh's Term is surely coming. and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
And whosoever strives, he strives only for himself. Verily, Allâh is free of all wants from the 'Alamîn.]
Translation of the Meanings of the Qur'an, Al-'Ankabout:1-6
The matter that God "is there" does not match with Islamic theology, since He is not limited with time and space; He created them.
The main question is, however, how are we here ?
I think it is meaningless to say that "chance" brought us here, and that "chance" made that wonderful equilibrium.
[And the heaven He has raised high, and He has set up the Balance. In order that you may not transgress (due) balance. And observe the weight with equity and do not make the balance deficient.]
Translation of the Meanings of the Qur'an, Ar-Rahman: 7-9
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meshack machete
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Religion?..Opium of the masses?..
January 8, 2006 - 06:00 AM
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i spent five years of my youth trying to understand religion..and the more i tried the more i got confused..look around you and judge for yourself if there's any super being out there waiting for to find him..why cant he find us since he is the one who knows everything?..
and religious people?well,there are good religious people out there...but still there are bad ones..fundamentalism kills..i'd rather stay open and shun the idea of God's existance............................................. watch this space!!
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Saladin
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
January 8, 2006 - 06:11 AM
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Meshaq, the question is not about religious people, it's about what religion says....since people are not perfect.
Just tell me what's the point from our existence? Survival, and materialistic pleasure? Is that our ultimate goal? Where is our moral obligation?
Just see how materialistic this world has turned to be because of ideas denominating the role of morality. A company like MCDonalds is a bright example of large-scale worldwide management that only aims at PROFIT, since the "nutritive value" of its products is almost nothing. This what happens when materialsim replaces morality, and human beings became "instrumentalized" by other humnan beings to attain some self-interests.
Just look how many crimes were committed by people who believe in these ideas: Stalin's concentration camps in Siberia, the Nazi extermination of Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, and handicapped people, the slave-trade, the colonialization of the third world, and many other black spots in the human history. It is sufficient that the two World Wars, the most violent parts of the entire human history, were the breed of ideas like Communism, Nazim, Fascism, and profit-only-oriented economies: AND NOT RELIGION.
There's a general rule; malicious people can manipulate any sort of ideology, whether religious or not, in order to justify malicious acts.
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Patricia Kumar
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
January 8, 2006 - 06:36 AM
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"i'd rather stay open and shun the idea of God's existance"
-meshaq
Its kinda hard to ignore the fact that someone divine and superior exists. How do you explain creation? how did we get here?
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Anu maheshwari
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
January 8, 2006 - 09:28 AM
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i can't believe in divine creation ...it just doesnt make sense!!!!!
i do believe that even if "God" didnt exist , it would be neccessary to create one... the idea of a moral authority sitting above to keep a check on your deeds seems to work for many.
there is a story of a farmer and his son. this farmer wasn't doin very well with his crop so he decides to steal from his neighbour's farm. he takes his son to keep a watch.he tells his son to inform him anyone is watching...the son checks all directions and says' Dad someone is watching u" . his father panics and asks him about the person . the son replies,'God'. the father realises his mistake. the innocent remark from his son changes him.
So the concept does prevent people from doin wrong things...but its not fool proof as it is only an 'idea'. that is why there are fundamentalists in the world who twist it to suit there on purpose. So there is nothing really mystical about religion per se.one should always keep in mind that religion is created to serve man(woman)kind...not the other way around!!!!!
personally i believe that my conscience is my God. it hurts me when even by mistake i hurt others...(though it might not totally prevent me from doin such things again!!!!) and it makes me very happy if i do good things.i believe that good deeds generate a positive aura. if one commits a wrong deed it spreads negative aura which disturbs oneself and the people around.
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Saladin
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
January 16, 2006 - 05:09 AM
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anuriandima84,
You said you don't believe in a "Divine creation".
The term "creation" itself that you put means that it was "created" by something else. Nevertheless, it's clear from your post that you don't believe in a Deity.
Just tell me, if you feel that you already "exist", then from where did this whole universe come from? - any ideas?
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mnopq
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Re: The proof is in the experience of communion
January 17, 2006 - 09:32 AM
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well, well,
here goes the fundamental question of who, why and when!
There are two versions of how this universe, our plant and human beings came to life and existance: the scientific version and the religious version!
Everyone is free to stick to whichever version he/she believes is the best/the most true/the most exciting, etc.
And yes I agree West is becoming more and more reluctant to think of our creation having a religous origin, having been caused, amon other things, by the fact that West is living more and more depending on recent innovations and less and less dependent on spiritual values and thats how the scientific "flavor" of creation is being instilled in Westerners.
On the other hand East, being historically as also now more religous tends to stick to spiritual values and beliefs for most of things in daily life and less dependent on recent innovations and hence the firm believe in religous nature of our creation!
But whichever one we choose, there is ONLY on truth of our creation and our choice becomes more a question of which version gives us more control and confort in our daily lifes as for our families and our work, our beliefs and our state of spirit!
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