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Luke Lieberman
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declarations with intention to fire things up
October 27, 2005 - 07:34 AM
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(CNN) -- U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has expressed "dismay" over the Iranian president's comments urging the destruction of Israel.
Annan, in a statement issued Thursday, reminded "all member states that Israel is a long-standing member of the United Nations with the same rights and obligations as every other member."
It added that "under the United Nations Charter, all members have undertaken to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state."
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday lambasted Israel and Zionism and quoted the late Ayatollah Khomeini calling for Israel to be "wiped out from the map."
In response, Israel's prime minister has suggested that Tehran should be expelled from the United Nations.
Ariel Sharon, in remarks issued Thursday by the Israeli government press office, said he believes any country that calls for the destruction of another cannot be a member of the United Nations.
The U.N. statement didn't address that contention.
But it said Annan "had already decided to visit Iran during the next few weeks, to discuss other issues.
"He now intends to place the Middle East peace process, and the right of all states in the area to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force, at the top of his agenda for that visit."
Meanwhile, British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Thursday called comments by Iran's president "completely and totally unacceptable."
"I felt a real sense of revulsion at those remarks," said Blair, who spoke at a press briefing after a European Union summit near London.
"There has been a long time in which I've been answering questions on Iran with everyone saying to me 'tell us you're not going to do anything about Iran,'" he said.
"If they carry on like this, the question people are going to be asking us is, 'When are you going to do something about this,' because you imagine a state like that with an attitude like that having a nuclear weapon."
Ahmadinejad comments were made during a meeting with protesting students at Iran's Interior Ministry.
He quoted a remark from Ayatollah Khomeini, founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, that Israel "must be wiped out from the map of the world."
The president then said: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," according to a quote published by Iran's state news outlet, the Islamic Republic News Agency.
The remarks by Ahmadinejad coincided with a month-long protest against Israel called "World Without Zionism" and with the approach of Jerusalem Day.
In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Ahmadinejad's views "underscores our concern and the international community's concerns about Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons."
Ottawa also issued a strong rebuke, with Canadian Foreign Minister Pierre Pettigrew saying: "We cannot tolerate comments of such hatred, such anti-Semitism, such intolerance. These comments are all the more troubling given that we know of Iran's nuclear ambitions."
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 27, 2005 - 07:37 AM
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'Completely unacceptable'
Across Europe, the reaction was equally strong.
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said Thursday he condemned the Iranian statement "absolutely."
"It is a completely unacceptable statement, of course. We should respect borders and respect the integrity of Israel, and we want Israel to live in peace with its neighbors," he told BBC radio.
Asked whether he believed that Iran should be expelled from the U.N., Barroso said: "I condemn absolutely that statement, but I will not make any concrete proposal now."
In Paris, Ahmadinejad's comments prompted the French foreign minister to summon the Iranian ambassador for an explanation. France, along with Germany and Britain, has been involved in negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program.
French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said he learned about Ahmadinejad's comments from news reports.
"If these comments are correct, they are unacceptable. I greatly condemn them and have asked for the Iranian ambassador in Paris to be summoned to the Foreign Ministry to demand explanations," Douste-Blazy said.
"For France, the right for Israel to exist should not be contested. This state was created by a decision of the U.N. General Assembly. International law applies to all. The question of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict cannot be used as a pretext to put into question the fundamental right for Israel to exist."
Foreign ministries in Berlin, Madrid and Rome also made their opposition to Ahmadinejad's remarks known to Iran's representatives in their countries, AP reported.
Spain summoned the Iranian ambassador in Madrid to protest the comments, while the German Foreign Ministry summoned a representative of the Iranian Embassy to underline Berlin's opposition to the remarks.
Italy said the remarks confirmed concerns over Tehran's nuclear program, and that the Foreign Ministry had expressed "discomfort and concern to the Iranian ambassador in Rome."
"The contents and tone of such unacceptable statements confirm worries over the political positions pursued by the new Iranian leadership, especially concerning the nuclear dossier," a statement from Rome said.
Mr Howard said it was a dangerous statement and required a UN response.
"It's a very dangerous, serious speech," Mr Howard said.
"I think it does represent grounds for very great concern.
"To have the president of any country saying another should be wiped off the face of the earth is a reminder of the psychological pressure, quite apart from the actual pressure, that the state of Israel is under, and this obviously is an issue that the United Nations has to address."
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 27, 2005 - 07:57 AM
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Ahmadinejad quoted a remark from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, who said that Israel "must be wiped out from the map of the world."
The president then said: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," according to a quote published by IRNA.
Ahmadinejad said the "new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away," according to paraphrased statements in the IRNA report.
He also described Israel's disengagement from Gaza as a "trick" meant to make "Islamic states acknowledge the Zionist regime of Israel," according to the report.
Ahmadinejad is quoted as saying, "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."
LEON!!!! You out there buddy???
I think we were talking about whether the West's opposition to Iran attaining Nuclear technology was a "Double standard"
I'll tell you what - when the President of Israel starts making Public statements calling for the outright destruction of Iran - then we can start talking about Double standards.
As it is opposing Iran's Nuclear program is not a matter of double standards - it is a matter of simple sanity.
You don't give a Nuclear weapons to a nation whose President unambigiously states his intentions of Destroying another country outright.
Countries who advocate genocide as a matter of public policy - should not be given the means to impliment their twisted goals.
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Desert ROSE
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Olexi
Not really in the spirit of U2 and Bono - to question independence of Iran and well being of its citizens because of a silly saying..
It's like , "I am a citizen of the WEST, so my government can invade your country and set it on fire and then - I'll fly over your country in a chopper with a loud speaker, yelling: "I am a citizen of the United States, THE most powerful nation of Earth so you must bow down and kiss my but..."
 ))
nice comment Olexi really
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Lewis Best
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 02:44 AM
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"You don't give a Nuclear weapons to a nation whose President unambigiously states his intentions of Destroying another country outright. Countries who advocate genocide as a matter of public policy - should not be given the means to impliment their twisted goals."
In this ever-changing world of ours, is it possible that a nation forfeits its right to sovereignty when such comments are made, or when actions like genocide occur? The issue of Human Security is one which the world cannot take lightly.
I'm not advocating the "invasion" of Iran, or anything of the such. But what I am saying is should a country be allowed to make such comments, without any "punishment?"
But yes, countries who advocate things like genocide as puvblic, international policy SHOULD NOT be given the means to carry out their policies, nor should they be given the chance.
But invasion or anything of the sort is also not the way to go.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 02:54 AM
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Let me add Olexi - that if this was the President of Russia - suggesting that the Ukraine should be "wiped off the face of the earth" - I doubt you would consider it a "silly saying.."
I am frankly surprised at you - that you would belittle such comments - and like I said iff they were made about your country I think you would take them much more seriously -
as Batoola I imagine you would - if this was Sharon saying this about Jordan - you would be singing a different tune entirely.
So stop being hypocrites.
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Azira Aziz
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 03:26 AM
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Actually, at first I was like "here we go, another 'you blasted anti-Jew Islamic country. Down boy, down!'" because that's what I think this thread's gonna start up with, no offence luke.
This is going to be a layman's edition, cause I'm too lazy to research right now.
IMPO, FINALLY somebody with balls! I was beginning to think that those blasted Arab countries will never amount to anything as far as the fundamental ideals of OIC is concerned. Before anything, think. First rule of advertising is dramatisation cause it attracts attention. As a member of the redundant OIC, Iran recognizes that if it wants to get some rear ends moving of all 57 member nations (check Wiki) someone has do something a bit dramatic so that we'd FINALLY have the courage to fulfill one of our fundamental reasons of why we have the darned organisation. Malaysia may have played host to all of its conventions, but none of it has reaped fruit, none at all because we are basically sorta leaderless.
I don't think it'll really amount to real fighting. Even if they have nuclear power they won't really fight because a) they're sandwiched between Iraq and Afghanistan (US controlled, risky), and b) to reach Israel they'd have to cross Iraq and Syria or Jordan. There's a delicate issue of respecting the sovereignity of countries borders and airpsace. They don't have much military expertise (unless on some war or another the US dead on sure taught them how) so the range won't reach.
Iran's taking a huge gamble by doing this. Would the other Arab countries, whether involved or not with the Syrian-Lebanon friction follow suit? Would they be brave enough to act instead of simpy talk as they always do? The main point of dissatisfaction has always been Israel, but would this bring benefits to all Muslim countries of the world?
I could not rule out that it could possibly be a genuine call to arms. Time's a bit ripe. USA's a bit bankrupt right now AND busy with its internal politics plus the ppl's own supposed resentment over current management and its war against Iraq & Afghanistan. I could hardly think of another nation who would invade Iran for its supposed anti-semitic propoganda and also have the military capabilties. PLUS it's probably another petty issue hyped up by Bushy to divert the bad media on him to somebody else. Politicians, you know.
But, I think they probably went a bit too far with the Anti-Jew and Anti-Zionsm (It's a book of fiction!). Most non-ME (Middle East) Muslims are basically anti-Israel, not the people. Weren't even born then. Sorry, thank you.
I'm really hoping for some OIC rebirth.
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Azira Aziz
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by Batoola
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Olexi
[B]
It's like , "I am a citizen of the WEST, so my government can invade your country and set it on fire and then - I'll fly over your country in a chopper with a loud speaker, yelling: "I am a citizen of the United States, THE most powerful nation of Earth so you must bow down and kiss my but..."
))
nice comment Olexi really [/B][/QUOTE]
ROFL!
Originally posted by luke
Let me add Olexi - that if this was the President of Russia - suggesting that the Ukraine should be "wiped off the face of the earth" - I doubt you would consider it a "silly saying.."
I am frankly surprised at you - that you would belittle such comments - and like I said iff they were made about your country I think you would take them much more seriously -
as Batoola I imagine you would - if this was Sharon saying this about Jordan - you would be singing a different tune entirely.
So stop being hypocrites.
Hey Mr. Freedom, The President of Iran may have been forceful in his language, but propaganda's part of the fun in politics, UNHR/UN Charter does allow it, y'know. It doesn't have a 'screw-the-rest-of-the-world-except-glorify-USA' clause in it. Take a chill pill man.
And you gotta admit, there's enough caricatures depicting that sense of humour of Olexi's. Have a sense of humour will ya? *chuckling*
"hands a glass of iced strawberryade to luke*
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 04:24 AM
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Chibi -
couple things - one is recognise that the US is not even close to bankrupt - our army now is actually quite small (less than 1 million as opposed to WW2 at 15 million person strong) - so we can ramp up at need.
But no one is really talking about invading Iran.
- If Iran gets really hostile with Israel - ISRAEL is more than capable of defending itself - AND Europe will back Israel, as you can see by their reaction to Iran's statements.
remember this comes at a time when Iran is telling the world their need for nuclear tech is for peaceful purposes only.
ALSO Iran hs just handed Israel a pretext to fly in and knock out thier Nuclear facilities before they can become fully functional - which Israel did to Saddam back in the 70's.
At this point I could not blame Israel for taking that step - given the attitude of the Iranian leadership.
BECAUSE
A) Iran has long range ballistic missles - so they don't need to fly aircraft over other countries airspace to deliver the load - and it is a FACT that the ballistic missles have the range to hit Israel.
B) Iran sponsers and has close contact with Hez Bullah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad - ALL of which are dedicated to the destruction of Israel. You do not have to deliver Nuclear technology at the tip of a missle or by a plane - it can be brought in by a suicide bomber.
Now as for the "fun of politics" - this is serious. There were people who thought Hitler was just a blowhard when he discussed similar intentions.
Finnally Chibi - be honest - if the President of the US, or Israel, or Australia or China or any other country - was talking about wiping out your country and all its people - would you consider it harmless dramatics?
I doubt it. You only consider them so because you happen to dissapprove of the victim of this rhetoric.
Finnally - do you think statements like this help the Palestinains as they deal with the Israelis - or do they legitimize the Israeli's security concerns and therefore the actions they take to ensure their security?
and does this kind of attitude in ANY WAY bring the Middle-east toward peace - or rather does it bring us all one step closer to World War?
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Samer
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Iran Says Kill Israel
October 28, 2005 - 05:53 AM
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Hi all,
I'm Samer and i live in Jordan which is an Arab country located in the Middle East.
Maybe a lot of you were surprised when the present of Iran say that we must Delete Israel From the Map..
But what i want to say that Israel is a bad country that kills palestinians every day!! They kill women , children , youth ,families , and tree Also....
Maybe you will think that because I'm Arabic i hate Israel..
but i can confirm for you all that we have no problem with the Israelis!! but do you know that Israel have more the 200 nuclear war heads ?? and it is the only country in the region that have such these type of weapons?? Do you know that Israel did not accept any of the united
nations decisions like 242 and 338?? Do you know that Israel still occupies parts of Palestine and Syria and Lebanon???
At the end .. i just want to say that we should not only look to Iran as an evil country and look to Israel as a peaceful country ....
Please look to the whole picture !!!!!
Regards,
SAMER
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Samer
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Iran Says Kill Israel
October 28, 2005 - 05:54 AM
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Hi all,
I'm Samer and i live in Jordan which is an Arab country located in the Middle East.
Maybe a lot of you were surprised when the present of Iran say that we must Delete Israel From the Map..
But what i want to say that Israel is a bad country that kills palestinians every day!! They kill women , children , youth ,families , and tree Also....
Maybe you will think that because I'm Arabic i hate Israel..
but i can confirm for you all that we have no problem with the Israelis!! but do you know that Israel have more the 200 nuclear war heads ?? and it is the only country in the region that have such these type of weapons?? Do you know that Israel did not accept any of the united
nations decisions like 242 and 338?? Do you know that Israel still occupies parts of Palestine and Syria and Lebanon???
At the end .. i just want to say that we should not only look to Iran as an evil country and look to Israel as a peaceful country ....
Please look to the whole picture !!!!!
Regards,
SAMER
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someonetoo
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declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 08:53 AM
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MY very briefed reflection here is such declarations by a president of a nation like iran, with the power it has in the region force us to ask the following questions :
As we undersatand it very simply, that usualy when an official figure makes a declaration he means something by this decalaration, and naturally it is to gain something. with this case no one can tell what is the win that iran is making by Najati's declaration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
point two is that with all the agressive and terrorist actions Israeli government, led by Ariel Sharon, is taken towards unarmed civil palestinians, Israeli government still does not make declaration to the public stating that they want to erase palestinians from the map.. now what is this called?
it is very clear the the massive destruction power israel bears cannot be eligible and legitimated unless such threats are made by ppl like the iranian president ,Najati, isn't that true ?
With all the problems and inconsistency the region lives in today, it looks so unexplained to fire things up with such declarations that reflect nothing but the unability to live peacefuly with the neighbors..do not you agree about this too?
Finally i want to add that neither israel nor iran should be allowed by the UN to have nuclear weapons becuse . the principle is unaceptable regardless of who is leading each country . otherwise and if we want to listen to statements saying " we can not allow a nation like iran with a president with such intentions to have nuclear weapons " then the reply would be so simple if Najati was changed would it be acceptable for iran to have nuclear weapons ... same applies for israel . we cannot have peace with nuclear weapons .. however, sometime isareli's fears are understandable ....
It takes rationalists to make peace . . .
najati's words are unaceptable and has not single purpose but to spice things up and fire the region more and more ..
Originally posted by luke
Ahmadinejad quoted a remark from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, who said that Israel "must be wiped out from the map of the world."
The president then said: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," according to a quote published by IRNA.
Ahmadinejad said the "new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away," according to paraphrased statements in the IRNA report.
He also described Israel's disengagement from Gaza as a "trick" meant to make "Islamic states acknowledge the Zionist regime of Israel," according to the report.
Ahmadinejad is quoted as saying, "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."
LEON!!!! You out there buddy???
I think we were talking about whether the West's opposition to Iran attaining Nuclear technology was a "Double standard"
I'll tell you what - when the President of Israel starts making Public statements calling for the outright destruction of Iran - then we can start talking about Double standards.
As it is opposing Iran's Nuclear program is not a matter of double standards - it is a matter of simple sanity.
You don't give a Nuclear weapons to a nation whose President unambigiously states his intentions of Destroying another country outright.
Countries who advocate genocide as a matter of public policy - should not be given the means to impliment their twisted goals.
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Olexi
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 09:44 AM
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Not really in the spirit of U2 and Bono - to question independence of Iran and well being of its citizens because of a silly saying..
It's like , "I am a citizen of the WEST, so my government can invade your country and set it on fire and then - I'll fly over your country in a chopper with a loud speaker, yelling: "I am a citizen of the United States, THE most powerful nation of Earth so you must bow down and kiss my but..."
))
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 28, 2005 - 11:29 AM
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Bonofan - I agree that invasion is unwarrented and out of the question -
but I think the International community is going to have form a unified front where Iran and the Nuclear issue is concerned because they are talking out of both sides of their mouth.
On one hand they are saying that they want Nuclear technology only for "peaceful" reasons - and on the other they have their president calling for the destruction of another country.
Even today their Ambassidors are trying to diffuse his comments and say "what he meant was that the Palestinians should have elections"
and at the same time the Iranian President is shrugging off the international reaction and said "They can say as they please but their words lack any credibility."
Olexi - I think you are missing the point if all your critisisms are for Bonofan and not the President which is calling for another country to be wiped off the face of the planet.
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Desert ROSE
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Re: declarations with intention to fire things up
October 29, 2005 - 01:14 AM
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well luke i'm glad that your calm , Celebtjk we all got luke's point but you shouldn't worry and no one should we've heard arabian leaders say alot of things but nothing was done so don't you get it they talk and only talk ,BTW the Isreali prime minister doesn't have to talk because they are already doing what they want and no one is asking or watching them they are given the freedom to do whatever they want .
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