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Dan Herman
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money supply grows faster than natural world
September 14, 2005 - 12:44 PM
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In many developing economies, economic growth and industrialization are taking precedence over any environmental impacts leaving future generations to pay the price of short-term growth. Given the need to create jobs and stimulate their economies, what are your thoughts on how developing countries can balance economic and environmental goals? Is it possible? Perhaps some of our members can share stories or examples from their home countries on these issues.
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Robert Margolis
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Public Health Needs (Some) Growth
October 22, 2005 - 09:02 AM
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What you say about the desire for instant profit is true (especially since the internet boom and real estate bubble). I know that is why so much of the electric growth in the 90's was gas turbines: they could be built quickly and profits made fast (profits after 2yrs).
However, there is a good deal of development and growth needed in many countries for such public health facilities as water and sewage treatment, hospitals, basic telecomunication, and refrigeration to preserve food. Supplying these needs on the necessary scale while balancing environmental concerns will be an interesting challenge.
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Robert Margolis
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I must be confused on growth...
October 23, 2005 - 07:59 AM
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If the underdeveloped go to a more developed state, they would have to use more energy and materials than before. Maybe you are proposing that they would increase their resource use to a steady-state and stabilize. That would be ideal, though I still wonder if there is a challenge for the initial development phase.
Of course, maybe I am using the wrong definition of growth? 
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Tran Thanh Tuyen
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Re: money supply grows faster than natural world
November 13, 2005 - 10:14 AM
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In Viet Nam there is the big gap between suistanable and economic. For example, in shrimp ponds, farmers use pesticides for treatment the pond before bring up the shrimp because it is the cheapest way for poor communities in rural areas.
And in urban areas, when the factories release the pollutants into environment such as waste water to rivers. They don't have any the treament to this waste. Althought, the built the treament system, they never work all time.
This is the bad picture for developing countries's environment
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Dan Herman
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Re: money supply grows faster than natural world
November 15, 2005 - 04:32 AM
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Similarly, dynamite fishing is still being utilized in some African countries, namely in Sierra Leone and Mozambique. Quick economic benefit outweighing the horrible impact on long term supply.
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barbie
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Re: money supply grows faster than natural world
November 27, 2005 - 04:32 AM
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i think the biggest problem is that the majority of people [in developed and developing countries] is still not aware of the threats to the environment. i believe consumers have the power, and if we really want, we can change the way companies manufacture certain products. i believe boycotts would work, if enough people could be mobilized, and then it wouldn't matter what country a company was in, it would be forced to change its habbits to keep the customers.
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Gregory Dean
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money supply grows faster than natural world
November 28, 2005 - 10:06 AM
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It's basic, the fractional monetary system that we are now in necessarily grows the supply of money extremely quickly it has essentially reproduced its self and then some since 1986 when the natural world can only grow at %2 per year.
So let's say that you hold the title to forests, there is no way you are going to let it grow at %2 a year when you can cut it down get money which grows, in our economic terms, at least 2-3 times that fast. This is what the Malaysian minister of forests said in '96 (and look out how brilliantly the Malaysian central bank plays currencies to grow its reserves).
But the environment isn't the only cost, this huge growth in the monetary supply (which serves to inflate GDP through the velocity of money) also devalues workers' savings, if you just want conservative protection of your few hard earned dollars (like most workers want) then you are likely not to try and play in the more risky international financier realms and so you're savings are likely to grow only at 4%, or less than half of the average since 1986.
So, IMO, if you're serious about change on this planet you have to start at community run economics, where the measure of unit is decided by co-ops and what is actually produced, not what the international financiers and central banks think will make them obscenely rich from made up wealth.
Also wars have historically been supported or even created by fractional reserve bankers because it's a debt based system, and there is no better way to create debt than war, either in arming (usually both sides but arming one side a little better) then financing reconstruction.
Luckily Zoe, N.Z. already has a large co-op economy (also the N.Z. central bank is a lot more conservative but the IMF still controls) and so there is a lot to work with already in terms of democratic, participatory economics including the possibility of starting up a ground level currency system.
I used to be a pretty serious EarthFirst type activist, living in the bush from Australia to B.C. I worked with seriously committed ppl shutting down mining and logging operations for weeks and months straight but even that is weak ass sh*t. Don't spend your life putting out bush fires, restructure on the capitalist system so that life might get a fighting chance. If the masses control the economic means you'll see a mass choice to employ those means so that their children can live on this Earth.
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