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-SB- Shobuz Bhai
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America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
August 8, 2005 - 04:10 AM
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'''''''''''''''''Fallujah had already become the symbol of the Iraqi resistance after Marines killed 15 civilians in May 2003 - when the city even had a pro-American mayor. Last April, up to 1,000 Iraqis were killed, blown up, burnt or shot by the Americans - two thirds of them civilians, mostly women and children. Now, one of the first targets of Phantom Fury was a Fallujah hospital, qualified by the Pentagon as "a center of propaganda". The fact is, in April hospital doctors were carefully detailing to the world media the hundreds of innocent civilians killed by the American assault. Now, under a strategy of what could almost be called collective punishment, the hospital has become a military target. '''''''''''''''''''
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More details : http://shobuz.tigblog.org/post/27328
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redpoppy
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 15, 2005 - 08:05 AM
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The superpower are superterrorists!!!
Whoops! i shouldn't say this should i?
They will come and kill me now, for speaking the truth!
Or, at the very least, some U.S.subject "on board" will find me and verbally disect me, limb from limb, with "friendly dialogue" lol.
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Fai Moh
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BLOOD for OIL and more protection for Israel
September 15, 2005 - 10:30 AM
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well... i think its in very simple word's
american war its just mean more protection for israel and
BLOOD for OIL
nothing more , coz as we know that all what they r doing is big shif game and they r profissional to tell them peole thas shit words throw them shit mass media " sorry for useing sht word" but that what they r doing
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redpoppy
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 16, 2005 - 11:32 AM
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Pls don't feel u have to apologise, on my behalf! I agree with u. I read an article recently. About Depleted Uranium. The U.S.Military used it in the last Gulf war and now this one too. Its in the form of a powder i think. Anyway it can be compared to 'Agent Orange' they used in Vietnam.
Basically,They use it to make the weapons, it is radioactive, contaminating the earth, soil and crops. And unfortunately the people!
It even affects the U.S. Soldiers themselves, so much for their Government looking after 'their own!'
At first 'The Pentagon' was in denial that it was doing any significant ammount of harm. Now they are being proved wrong! But, as usual they will deny it, like they did in Vietnam!
They don't care, its as u say 'blood for oil' I hate this.
I see from your profile u are in Palestine? and u spent time in Egypt. What is ur nationality? I wish u luck and protection there, in Palestine may Allah be with u.
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Ashraf
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 17, 2005 - 04:12 AM
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shobuz,
Ironically, there are still some Arabs who call those butchers their friends. Go figure.
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Ben
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 21, 2005 - 11:16 AM
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terror is relative; from my perspective (australian) the true terrorists on the planet are governments, not the US people or the armed forces (cos in the end the armed forces only do what they are told) but the governments in power. sure osama and his followers attacked america but american governments have been screwing with middle eastern politics for ages, some retalitation was bound to happen.
i dont agree with what happened i dont think it was right and i dont think the US response was warrented, or the australian and british inclusions in those "co-alition of teh willing" and now more innocent people are dying. terror is all relavtive, it boils down to whoever attacks who are the terrorists - australians get attacked in Bali by indonesian al kida, and they are terrorists to us, america bomb iraqi's amercians are terrorists to them and so forth
the history books will onyl ever record the winners as the good guys - so at the moment whoever wins will be crowned (throughout history) as the winners when in actual fact right now they could be classed in your midns as teh bad guys - whoever you think they are.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 01:07 AM
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egyamira - I assume you mean "desperate people" -
To begin people fighting against soldiers are "insurgents" - not terrorists.
The "terrorists" in Iraq are the ones targeting the civilian population with car bombs - the ones who fire mortar rounds into crouds of religious worshippers.
Zarchawi and his ilk are terrorist, not a freedom fighers, not insurgents - he is targeting civilians and trying to start a civil war.
Ask Hammodi as he is there - if the American army is targeting Iraqi civilians.
As for people who "facing hunger" rising up in rightous anger etc. which is what you seem to be driving at -
where it that this were so.
The bombers in London were not poor starving oppressed people - they were middle class kids from Notting Hill. They were not oppressed - they were angst ridden teenagers whose anger was exploited by radicals to commit murder.
The Bali Bomber - was not some poor hungery guy - Hambali was just a psycho.
Al Qaeda is not made up of poor people. Bin Laden is certainly not starving. Neither is Zawahiri.
The 9/11 highjackers were mostly Saudi's from upper class families.
The Madrid bombers were not starving either.
I think you would do well to recognise that by rationalizing this behavior you are not doing yourself any favors -
Do you reolize that earlier this week a Muslim group started acts of terrorism against THAILAND - for goodness sakes?
Is it the case that Muslims everywhere in the world - in Thailand, Indonesia, Russia, Europe, America, India, Africa, and the Middle East - are ALL oppressed. They are ALL being exploited and have to use terrorism to fight back.
I think this concept of Jihad might have something to do with all the terrorism.
aymanelhakea - to begin there are WAR CRIMES and then there is terrorism - the Hollocaust was a series of war crimes.
It is simply better not to mix the termenology.
"Why did some "maniac" fly a plane into civilians? We'll find that the reason behind this is injustice and violence, done by someone else against that "maniac", by killing the maniac's father, mother, sister, children, and brother," - aymanelhakea
I am sorry my friend, I know it sounds nice - it sounds intellectually satosfying that this were the case - but as I said before - no one kicked Bin Laden off his land, or killed his father.
Muhammed Atta was not oppressed by the American government - so quit making excuses for them.
in fact my friend - lets give the discussion a little focus - you said that the maniac who flew into the world trade center had his brother killed or suffered some great injustice at the hands of America.
well lets test that theory - the maniac who litterally flew the plane into the towers was named Muhammed Atta -
here is his bio -
Atta was born on September 1, 1968 in Kafr El Sheikh, a city in the Nile Delta in Egypt and also carried a Saudi passport. He grew up in Cairo, Egypt and graduated with a degree in architecture from Cairo University. He was apparently not particularly religious during this period. He then moved to Germany, where he was registered as a student of urban planning at the Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg in Hamburg from 1993 to 1999. There are other reports that Atta attended Valencia School of Medicine in Spain during this period, though these may be a case of mistaken identity. [1])
In Hamburg, Atta worked on a thesis exploring the history of Aleppo's urban landscapes. It explored the general themes of the conflict between Arab civilization and modernity. Atta criticized how the modern skyscrapers and development projects in Aleppo were disrupting the fabric of that city by blocking community streets and altering the skyline. He received a high mark on his report from his German supervisor.
In Germany, Atta was registered as a citizen of the United Arab Emirates. His German friends describe him as an intelligent man with religious beliefs who grew angry over the Western policy toward the Middle East, including the Oslo Accords and the Gulf War. MSNBC in its special "The Making of the Death Pilots" interviewed German friend Ralph Bodenstein who traveled, worked and talked a lot with Mohamed Atta. Ralph said, "He was most imbued actually about Israeli politics in the region and about U.S. protection of these Israeli politics in the region. And he was to a degree personally suffering from that."
"The 9/11 Commission Report states that "In his interactions with other students [in Germany], Atta voiced virulently anti-Semitic and anti-American opinions, ranging from condemnations of what he described as a global Jewish movement centered in New York City that supposedly controlled the financial world and the media, to polemics against governments of the Arab world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta_al-Sayed
hmmm, not kicked off his land, not oppressed, family was not killed - grew up mostly in Germany... Don't see a whole lot of injustice suffered - seems he is more of a radical who attached himself to a political cause and expressed his personal political feelings through an act of catostrophic terrorism.
Now for a more recent case - the London bombers -
Mohammad Sidique Khan
"Born in St. James's Hospital, Leeds, he grew up in Beeston but moved to Lees Holm in Dewsbury, near Leeds in West Yorkshire in early 2005. His father, Tika Khan, a foundry worker, was born in Pakistan. His mother is Mamida Begum. He received his secondary education at South Leeds High School, formerly the Matthew Murray High School, which was also attended by Hasib Hussain, the July 7 bus bomber.
Khan was married to Hasina Patel, who is of Indian Muslim descent, a "community enrichment officer," who had worked in schools with special needs pupils. They met at the University of Leeds and married in 2001. Their daughter, Maryam, was born in May 2004. Khan worked at Hillside Primary School in Dewsbury as a "learning mentor" with the children of immigrant families who had just arrived in Britain. [2] He was introduced to MPs Hilary Benn and Jon Trickett during his school's trip to the House of Commons in July 2004."
Hasib Hussain
"Hussain was born in Leeds General Infirmary and raised in Beeston, Leeds, England the youngest of four children raised by a factory chargehand, Mahmood, and his wife, Maniza, an interpreter for South Asian families at Leeds General Infirmary. At the time of the bombing, Hussain was staying with his brother Imran and sister-in-law Shazia, in Colenso Mount, Holbeck, Beeston.
Hussain, at age 10
Hussain received his primary education at Ingram Road Primary School, Holbeck. In September 1998, he began his secondary education at South Leeds High School — formerly the Matthew Murray High School. Despite a good attendance record he was withdrawn by teachers from all his GCSE exams before leaving school on 20 July 2003. He held a GNVQ in business studies.
He was a member of the Holbeck Hornets football team and the local cricket team.
His parents had tried to discipline him but he turned to religion in the latter half of 2003. Hussain had become a devout Muslim after visiting Pakistan in 2003, started wearing traditional Muslim dress and growing a beard, and had made the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca, the hajj. Around this time, he began associating with Shehzad Tanweer and Mohammad Sidique Khan, two other suspected bombers. The three frequented the Stratford Street mosque in Beeston, and were also intimately associated with the Hamara Youth Access Point, a drop-in centre for teens.
He was cautioned by police for shoplifting in 2004."
Shehzad Tanweer
"Tanweer was born in St Luke's maternity hospital, Bradford to Parveen Akhtar, whose husband, Mohammed Mumtaz Tanweer, was originally from the Faisalabad region of Pakistan. In 1984, the family moved to the Beeston area of Leeds, then to Colwyn Road, Leeds when Tanweer was seven. Known as Kaka (little one) by his family, [4] he attended Wortley High School, where he was described as politically moderate by his friends, who knew him as an outstanding sportsman, excelling at cricket, triple jump, long-distance running, football, and ju-jitsu. [5] [6] He then attended Leeds Metropolitan University, where he studied sports science before leaving for Pakistan in 2004 to attend a course in Islamic studies.
At the time of his death, Tanweer is believed to have worked occasionally in his father's fish and chip shop. His family had previously owned a curry takeaway and a butcher's shop, and his father was respected locally as a prominent businessman.
Tanweer attended several mosques including Bengali, and Stratford Street mosque in Beeston, where two of the other London bombers, Mohammad Sidique Khan and Hasib Hussain, are also believed to have worshipped. He also frequented"
I am not seeing a whole lot of poor oppressed people among this list of terrorist - I am seeing angry young people, as there are MANY angry young around the world from all different races and religiosn - but these angry young people are given a "cause" - a religious "cause" through which to channel their angst and violent thoughts.
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Saladin
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 01:52 AM
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Luke,
In no way I meant that "always" the ppl who did the attacks themselves are hungry desperate people....you are citing CVs of individual examples..just take the hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombers, since the establishment of Hamas and Jihad movements as an example, and compare the numbers: You'll find that most of ppl dying for "a cause" -as they believe- are desperate ppl..
Hamas was founded only in 1987, do you believe this ? Before this date suicide bombings like the ones happenning today were not known except in Kamikaze attacks and in Sri Lanka. Certainly it's not only about a "religious cause", it's also about a long history of injustice to which some people were subjected.
Even Muhammad 'Ata and the ones like him, they were exposed to radical ideas that emerged as a violent "reaction" against what's happenning to 'Ata's "brothers" in the Middle East.
I'm not trying to find "excuses" for him; it sounds like you're accusing me of advocating terrorism here...I'm trying to let you people understand what are the intentions and motives a person might develop in order to crash a plane into some civilian building...The first step towards ending terrorism...is to know how terrorists think, because I believe that terrorism infrastructure lies in brains, not in armament or money.
The fact that there are some Muslims who are being overwhelmed by unjust conditions somewhere, means that in somewhere else, ppl might develop violent kinds of reactions.
Terrorism, war crimes, genocide, I think they all share the element of exposing civilians to torture, panic, and terror...
There are ppl who suffer, and there are other ppl who believe the latter are their "brothers", and who respond violently -as a reaction- to this, and the primary cause is known: Injustice...just to make my point short:
Injustice is very influential in feeding all radical ideologies...
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Saladin
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 03:20 AM
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Well,
I agree with gambit1982 that terror is a relative issue. The PKK are freedom fighters -as Kurds see them-, and are terrorists -as Turks see them. Moreover, the PKK see Turkey as a terrorist state. It's completely relative.
I agree with froot that sometimes armies disobey governments; like what happened in Serbia with Miloshevich.
I think that "violence", whether terrorism or freedom fighting, everywhere, is the immediate consequence of injustice primarily.
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hammodi
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 03:37 AM
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Egyamira, when did it happen in Iraq that the “armies” attack a village and set fire in it?
Ayman, you said, “There are ppl who suffer, and there are other ppl who believe the latter are their "brothers", and who respond violently -as a reaction- to this, and the primary cause is known: Injustice...just to make my point short:
Injustice is very influential in feeding all radical ideologies...” -Ayman
Ok then could you please tell me why terrorists in Iraq are killing innocent Iraqis including barbers, bakers, people going to vote and people practicing their religious rituals? Where is the injustice that led to this terrorism according to your theory?
Besides you’re religious as I saw from your posts so haven’t you ever heard of al khawarij, I think terrorists nowadays are very similar to the khawarij. Did the khawarij suffer injustice from the early Muslims?
And I’m just confused, can any one tell me when is it in Islamic history that our Prophet (pbuh) ever ordered killing civilians, he always prior to any war order his soldiers not to attack wounded enemy soldiers, not to attack retreating enemy soldiers and when Muslims were weak he never sent anyone to terrorize civilians he and his followers simply used methods other than violence to achieve their goals. I don’t know on what section of Islam do these terrorists base their behaviours and I don’t know why some of you guys are trying to find reasons for them?
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Amira Sobeih
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 03:47 AM
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Hola Luke.....(and every one)
in matter of fact: Ayman submitted the same meaning which i was intended to reply with....
P.S. just an example for depressed people:
in Sweden -one of the most rich countries- :
"Some 1,500 people take their own lives each year in Sweden, which has about nine million inhabitants, which makes Sweden the country with the 19th highest suicide rate in the world, according to Johansson."
http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1771&date=20050721
another example for depressed people;
those soldiers who know that they kill innocents:
"Of the more than 450 US fatalities since the beginning of the war in Iraq, 20 have reportedly been suicides, or “self-inflicted” deaths, as the military prefers to call them".
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/805FDBBF-96C5-401A-B512-49A5AE73D9BE.htm
and "WASHINGTON, Feb. 13 (UPI) -- A week before it expects to release a report on mental health issues affecting troops in Operation Iraqi Freedom, the Army has determined that at least 21 soldiers have committed suicide in Iraq or Kuwait.
Army spokeswoman Martha Rudd said the suicides do not include an undisclosed number of soldiers who killed themselves after leaving Iraq or Kuwait. And several "non-hostile" deaths there are still being investigated.
The new figure suggests the suicide rate has risen substantially since mid-January, when 18 Army suicides had been confirmed. At that point, a Pentagon official put the Army suicide rate at 13.5 per 100,000 -- calling that "a very small increase" over a past average of 10 to 11 suicides per 100,000 soldiers."
http://discuss.agonist.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17129
A Soldiers Blog:
http://asoldiersblog.blogspot.com/2003_11_16_asoldiersblog_archive.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0306-03.htm
and look another example from the history (& i think u saw it with your eyes as well in Isreal)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde150332004
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 04:02 AM
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"terror is relative" - not sure I know what that means - terror is terror.
its a feeling.
If you want to talk about the difference between the violent actions of a state and a "terrorist" - they are this.
The State usually intends some direct military objective. They are trying to, at a practical level - take that hilltop or destroy the communications infrastructure - that kind of thing.
Terrorsim is a different kind of violence - there is no military objective of any kind that is acheived - it targets specifically civilians.
The terrorist knows that blowing up a bus will not have any practical effect - it will frighten people and glorify a cause.
"sure osama and his followers attacked america but american governments have been screwing with middle eastern politics for ages, some retalitation was bound to happen."
Gambit try a little mental excersize - imagine it was your father who went off to work that morning - and never came home - because some maniac from halfway around the world you have never heard of decides to fly a plane into a tall building full of civilians.
Imagine it was your father, because I could introduce you to some kids that lost fathers -
then give me that nonsense again about how "some retaliation was inevitable"
You are trying to dehumanize the entire situation and pretend to look at it on a macrocosmic fasion -
You see it as forces reacting to one another - instead of what it was - an instance of a maniac with a radical, delusional cause - killing a bunch of complete strangers, and innocent people - with no real objective at all except to kill as many people as possible - and escalate conflict.
Gambit from your macrocosmic perspective I could easily say - "America was attacked in an act of war - some retalitation was bound to happen"
Oh and the Bali bomber is not just a terrorist "to Australians" I beleive most Americans - and competant people in general will agree with you -
they blew up a bunch of innocent people in a night club - there is no such thing as a good reason for that - that IS terrorism - not just for you - period. Terrorism is terrorism - it is not really a relative thing.
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Ashraf
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 05:09 AM
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olomu1,
Saddam targeted all Iraqis. He even killed his own in-laws. Let us get things straight here. After all, the Kurds whom Saddam gassed in Halabjah were sunnis not shia.
The Arabs in Iraq are mainly shia and sunnis. But the kurds are overwhelmingly sunnis.
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hammodi
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 06:11 AM
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I agree with Luke
Shobuz, you’re wrong about the hospital in Fallujah. American forces attacked the hospital simply because terrorists were there doing as they usually do which to hide behind civilians. The doctors in that hospital couldn’t say the truth simply because there were terrorists around them and if a doctor said something that terrorists didn’t like, he’ll get killed. I listened to these doctors and each time they talk about such a number of children and women dying, it’s strange how men never die in Fallujah according to these reports by doctors!
Best wishes.
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Olomu1
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Re: America is fighting a "War on Terrorism"...right!!!
September 22, 2005 - 07:05 AM
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War is war ... It is an ill wind that blows nobody any good as such there certainly must be fatality and casualty whereever and whenever it rears its ugly head.
I am not a prophet of doom but i predict more killing, maiming will continue in Iraq so also will suicide bombing and kidnapping unless of course the world rally round to stop this wanton killing and destruction.
The American forces would not have remained in Iraq for so long if the Sunnis' had accepted what happened to Saddam as FAITH-ACCOMPLI. After all it was a case of KARMA catching up with them. The oppressive regime of Saddam which greatly favored the Sunnis witnessed the systematic killing, maiming of other tribes.
The world is changing and the wind of change has blown favorably to the Shiite and Kurds so the Sunnis must stop the senseless war and embrace the new government.
I make bold to say that the war in Iraq will end sooner than expected, Iraq will bounce back a sovereign and peaceful nation and the Sunnis naturally relegated as consequences resulting from their actions.
A word of advice for everybody. 'It is always a good judgement not to allow sentiments override our sense of reasoning'
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