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Kyle Simunovic
Joined: Jun 26, 2005
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[Poll] Going Against Nature
June 28, 2005 - 10:52 AM
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Alright so about 2 hours ago the canadian parliament voted to change the definition of marriage to include gays and lesbians, in doing so they became only the third juradiction in the world to do allow same-sex marriages.
What do you think? Heres my opinion:
I think that it shows great progress in society and we should be celebrating such tolerance and respect. More countries should show this leadership. Although I think its important to remember that religious jurasdiction also has to be respected.
Perhaps in the future other countries will follow. Today I am very proud to be a Canadian.
Cheers!
Kyle
Do you support Same-sex equality when it comes to marriage?
Yes
(7 votes for 53.85%)
Yes, but it marriage will always be one man and one women. Their needs to be a separate (but equal under the law) institution for homosexuals.
(1 votes for 7.69%)
No.
(5 votes for 38.46%)
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Saladin
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 01:25 AM
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Well, you see, the law that can be passed and approved in somewhere, can never be easily applied in the rest of the world...I personnally do not support that type of marriages, at least when it comes to my country...all with my full respect to everyone..
peace
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Kyle Simunovic
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by taikod
Hi Kyle,
Yep - it feels pretty good to be Canadian today. My partner and I have been together for 8 years... and have been covered by Manitoba's common law legislation (which gives full rights/responsibilities of marriage to both same sex and opposite sex couples living together for a set period of time as a couple, see http://www.gov.mb.ca/justice/family/commonlaw/commonlawproperty.html for the property rights implications) for the last year. We're trying to figure out now if/when to have a more formal civil marriage ceremony. Maybe next year on our arbitrary anniversary (June 15). In the meantime, though, all of our energy is going into final preparations for the birth of our first child in August.
Mostly, I'm just glad that this has been put to rest - even though Harper keeps promising that the next Parliamanet could "revisit" the legislation (Hunh? it's PASSED). I still don't think that most people in Canada really understand the history of marriage as a civil insitution rather than as a religious one but we're getting there.
I'm just happy to feel like I did my part a few years ago in testifying before the commission when it traveled around the country (http://updates.takingitglobal.org/read-comments?UpdateID=8466).
Happy Canada Day on Friday!
- Terri
Its great to see this legislation have a human example within you and your partner. It might come as a shock to you to know that I am a member of the conservative party; however, I've made it very clear to the party in my region that would publicly resign my seat from the board if our leader to even remotly revisit this issue. I've also moved a motion to have anything dealing with marriage removed from out platform as hte situation has been delt with.
I'm very happy to have been part of "Conservative for Equal Marriage." Some people find it very funny that our party has a 25-35% gay membership. I personally see the fiscal issues as things that make us conservative. I'm not a social conservative and proud of it.
I'm very happy for you and your partner, both for your child and the new ability for you to be recognized as would a opposite-sex couple.
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Terri Willard
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 02:15 AM
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I miss Joe Clark (http://www.speakers.ca/clark_joe.aspx for those who may be less familiar with Canadian politics)... :-(
Back before the merger with the Alliance, the Conservative Party was fabulous and kept their eyes on the big picture issues facing Canada. Clark never saw anything wrong with marching in the Calgary Pride Parade and then grilling the Liberals about economic and foreign policy. I keep hoping that Peter McKay will realize that things aren't working and split the party back off. It would make Canadian politics infinitely more Canadian and interesting again.
Then again, it's also good to know that there is a loyal opposition within the new Conservative Party trying to keep it open to different ideas. Keep up the great work!
- Terri
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Kyle Simunovic
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by taikod
I miss Joe Clark (http://www.speakers.ca/clark_joe.aspx for those who may be less familiar with Canadian politics)... :-(
Back before the merger with the Alliance, the Conservative Party was fabulous and kept their eyes on the big picture issues facing Canada. Clark never saw anything wrong with marching in the Calgary Pride Parade and then grilling the Liberals about economic and foreign policy. I keep hoping that Peter McKay will realize that things aren't working and split the party back off. It would make Canadian politics infinitely more Canadian and interesting again.
Then again, it's also good to know that there is a loyal opposition within the new Conservative Party trying to keep it open to different ideas. Keep up the great work!
- Terri
Its alot of fun!! It great arguing with the social conservatives as to how wrong they are and then in the back of their mind knowing they will never form government.
I think what alot of us are focused on is replacing harper in the near future with someone more progressive and with a bit of perpheral vision.
With a Peter McKay or Bernard Lord leading the party you would see alot more "old PC" style policy and leadership. I'm very excited about the future of this party.
Kyle
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C. Gudz
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 05:16 AM
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It's a momentous day for Canada, alright, on the quasi-eve of Canada Day no less. Even if it has taken this long, I'm still very proud of the Liberals (well most of them), the Social Democrats, and now the Bloq(!) for making it happen.
Congratulations same-sex marriage activists from all over!
Fun discussion guys, I completely agree with you on your reverance for Joe Clark in light of what is currently happening with the Conservative party. Agreed that Peter Mackay must lead the fiscal tories out of this Harper and co. mess.
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Kyle Simunovic
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by cgudz
It's a momentous day for Canada, alright, on the quasi-eve of Canada Day no less. Even if it has taken this long, I'm still very proud of the Liberals (well most of them), the Social Democrats, and now the Bloq(!) for making it happen.
Congratulations same-sex marriage activists from all over!
Fun discussion guys, I completely agree with you on your reverance for Joe Clark in light of what is currently happening with the Conservative party. Agreed that Peter Mackay must lead the fiscal tories out of this Harper and co. mess.
Its interesting to see the number of people who truly believe in the principles of fiscal conservatives yet they are equally against the principles of social conservaitves. Thats exactly what the Progressive Conservative party stood for. I see clearly now the future of the conservative party lead by a former "progressive."
Kyle
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tinuke
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 10:09 AM
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really,i am not happy at all with the law.i guess we all share different opinions about legalising homosexual relationships.
for God and whoever created the heavens and the earth,
whether we orginated from air or dust..there are 2(TWO)types of sexes:MALE AND FEMALE and they are meant to be together not the other way around.......
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Kyle Simunovic
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by words2tinuke
really,i am not happy at all with the law.i guess we all share different opinions about legalising homosexual relationships.
for God and whoever created the heavens and the earth,
whether we orginated from air or dust..there are 2(TWO)types of sexes:MALE AND FEMALE and they are meant to be together not the other way around.......
I 100% respect your opinion! I also thank you for having an opinion. Alot of people choose not to have an opinion or are to afraid to voice it.
Here is my opinion on the issue you pointed out:
As a christian, which I am. I've been attending my baptist church since i was born. I have given my life to god and choose to follow his path and his laws; however, many people in society have not. That is why I think our nations laws need to be a broad as possible. They need to extend to all view points. How is it fair for us to impose our christian teachings on those who are not christian? The bible also tells stories about love and acceptance, these people were created this way, they were born with the bodies and minds they have. As christians we are told to accept others and love them. This law does that.
I have struggled hard with it because i am christian and I have been looked upon rather "darkly" by my church family for holding this position and voicing it....but i just dont see it being fair for me to force my christian views onto others who simply dont believe or who choose to believe their own aspect of christianity (or any other religion for that matter).
But I do understand and appreciate your viewpoint. =D
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Terri Willard
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 29, 2005 - 12:13 PM
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Hi Kyle,
Yep - it feels pretty good to be Canadian today. My partner and I have been together for 8 years... and have been covered by Manitoba's common law legislation (which gives full rights/responsibilities of marriage to both same sex and opposite sex couples living together for a set period of time as a couple, see http://www.gov.mb.ca/justice/family/commonlaw/commonlawproperty.html for the property rights implications) for the last year. We're trying to figure out now if/when to have a more formal civil marriage ceremony. Maybe next year on our arbitrary anniversary (June 15). In the meantime, though, all of our energy is going into final preparations for the birth of our first child in August.
Mostly, I'm just glad that this has been put to rest - even though Harper keeps promising that the next Parliamanet could "revisit" the legislation (Hunh? it's PASSED). I still don't think that most people in Canada really understand the history of marriage as a civil insitution rather than as a religious one but we're getting there.
I'm just happy to feel like I did my part a few years ago in testifying before the commission when it traveled around the country (http://updates.takingitglobal.org/read-comments?UpdateID=8466).
Happy Canada Day on Friday!
- Terri
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Lucia
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Going Against Nature
June 30, 2005 - 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by mmtairo
The truth is that same sex marriages are not natural. we may try to find any justification, the constitution may legalise it, but the truth is the participants in such acts are unnatural. They have problems and they should seek solutions and not protection.
First, I want to tell Kyle that they are saying Spain is the third country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage  . I just heard on the news that this has not been ratified yet in Canada.
Secondly, referring to the quote above, I want to say that everyone has problems, whatever their nature or manifestation and we deal with them as we are able. And, moreover, there are so many unnatural things in this world in this day and age, which have far more grave and irreversible repercussions for all of humanity, that dwelling only on this relatively insignificant issue because it is "unnatural," or for any reason, seems very odd and unfortunate. I don't understand why so many people who are not and never ever will be affected by this issue are so emotionally engaged in protesting it and hindering it.
I have no strong opinion about this, but it doesn't bother me if people of the same sex are backed by law in their marriages, since no one is forcing me or anyone I care about to marry someone of their own gender against their will. Other people's sexuality and voluntary life choices, as long as they do not negatively affect me, are not my business and I really have so much else to worry about.
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Kyle Simunovic
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Going Against Nature
June 30, 2005 - 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by Bitsy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mmtairo
[B] The truth is that same sex marriages are not natural. we may try to find any justification, the constitution may legalise it, but the truth is the participants in such acts are unnatural. They have problems and they should seek solutions and not protection.
First, I want to tell Kyle that they are saying Spain is the third country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage . I just heard on the news that this has not been ratified yet in Canada.
Secondly, referring to the quote above, I want to say that everyone has problems, whatever their nature or manifestation and we deal with them as we are able. And, moreover, there are so many unnatural things in this world in this day and age, which have far more grave and irreversible repercussions for all of humanity, that dwelling only on this relatively insignificant issue because it is "unnatural," or for any reason, seems very odd and unfortunate. I don't understand why so many people who are not and never ever will be affected by this issue are so emotionally engaged in protesting it and hindering it.
I have no strong opinion about this, but it doesn't bother me if people of the same sex are backed by law in their marriages, since no one is forcing me or anyone I care about to marry someone of their own gender against their will. Other people's sexuality and voluntary life choices, as long as they do not negatively affect me, are not my business and I really have so much else to worry about. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats what alot of people are arguing and asking themselves; why is it that people are so against this when it will have very little if any effect on their lives. cant answer that.
And on Spain....lol...Canada's parliament ratified this on Tuesday night, and Spain's parliament ratified it today. The process in both countries is quite similar so it will take a while in both places to actually become law. I belive in Spain it still has to go through another body then be signed by the president....which is much the same as in Canada.
Cheers!
Kyle
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Going Against Nature
June 30, 2005 - 03:55 AM
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I think it should be pointed out that even in those lower animals with the lower IQs it is in fact very common for some homosexuality to occur.
obviously heterosexual behavior leads to reproduction - and thus the majority of any species is hetero sexual -
but a minority segment of homosexual population can be observed in everything from Penguins to Primates.
So it is in fact natural for a portion of the population to exhibit homosexual behavior.
I think there should be acceptence of this as it is as old as human history -
personally I chose the middle option - I think homosexual union whould have all the same legal protections rights and responsibilities - and it is simply ignoring reality for governments to ignore this -
but I think there is a difference between homosexual union and hetero-sexual marriage - it has to do cheifly with procreation and as such they should be recognised as two seperate things.
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Lucia
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Going Against Nature
June 30, 2005 - 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by simunovick
And on Spain....lol...Canada's parliament ratified this on Tuesday night, and Spain's parliament ratified it today. The process in both countries is quite similar so it will take a while in both places to actually become law. I belive in Spain it still has to go through another body then be signed by the president....which is much the same as in Canada.
Cheers!
Kyle
Oh well, can't always trust the news - there's a European bias over here you know 
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Kyle Simunovic
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Going Against Nature
June 30, 2005 - 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by Bitsy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by simunovick
[B]
And on Spain....lol...Canada's parliament ratified this on Tuesday night, and Spain's parliament ratified it today. The process in both countries is quite similar so it will take a while in both places to actually become law. I belive in Spain it still has to go through another body then be signed by the president....which is much the same as in Canada.
Cheers!
Kyle
Oh well, can't always trust the news - there's a European bias over here you know [/B][/QUOTE]
Its a race to see who can get through the process quicker!
Regardless, its great to see that nations around the world are showing leadership and standing up the minoritys.
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