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Jack Butler
beigetreten: May 27, 2005
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Peaceful Muslims
July 7, 2005 - 04:42 AM
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While the news here in America is filled everyday with another terrorist bombing or suicide attack by a muslim, what most of the media fail to note is how big the muslim population in the world is. The Muslim population worldwide is estimated at 1.7 billion and to stereotype the actions of a few wayward muslims is to sorely misunderstand the religion and the people. i think if the media in the US and worldwide were more inclined to show the rest of the worlds muslim population I suspect non-muslims would have more compassion for Islam as a religion. Peaceful muslim rallies go on everyday yet all we see are the extremists burning american flags. i shame the media for their terrible coverage
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Luke Lieberman
beigetreten: Feb 13, 2003
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 7, 2005 - 07:00 AM
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My deepest condolences to the people of London today - there is no excuse for this.
I hope Scoland Yard is on top of it and catch the criminals who did it. I also hope they recognise the looming security concerns for the Olympics - I am sure they do.
I am truly sorry - London is a special place.
Amitk - I am also sorry about the Hindu temple - I had heard of it.
I wish I knew the answer - Jihad has become an excuse for violence everywhere - it is spreading from one end of the earth to the other.
Moderate Muslim cannot ignore this problem - they must actively condemn it and fight against it - these extremists are a pox on the world.
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Saladin
beigetreten: Oct 1, 2002
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 7, 2005 - 11:03 AM
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Well Luke, I don't find either that what you said is that much different from what I said. It is true that Moshe Dayan said on the 6th of October 1973, that the "Third Temple is in danger". It "seemed" that the existence of Israel was threatened....but they new that US won't leave them like that, and they succeeded to get what they wanted.
The main point I disagree with you is that when you say: they pushed the Egyptians out of Israel...it was not Israel, it was a portion of the then-occupied Sinai peninsula, that Israel took from Egypt in 1967 by military force. I appreciate that you choose prestigious and reliable sources - US undersecretary of the Airforce -. I talked too- to other people, who were serving in the battlefront; General Abdelhalim Abu-Ghazala, the Egyptian Commander of Artillery forces, who became later the Minister of Defense, is my grandfather's best friend...and his grandson is one of my best friends too. My father served in the Egytpian navy from 1967 to 1994, and his two cousins, one of them was an infantry trooper in 1973, the other was an commando in the same war...both of us have reliable sources...but reflecting different points of view...the thing that I think it to be normal.
Even threatening to use nukes makes me afraid...when Yitzhak Murdekhay, former Israeli minister of defense threatened to encircle Damascus in 1996, and when Mr. Lieberman, a Knesset representative talked about nuking the Aswan High Dam -and basically wiping out Egypt in 11 minutes-...I should have concerns...it has little to do with the responsibilities Israel should face after such actions -if they would ever happen-....I mean the only nation in the world that had the first honor to use nukes was a democracy, and unfortunately twice...and I don't really care about the reasons...at the end...nukes were employed twice to hit civilians.
I find it Ok when you mentioned that Muhammad's saying was nearly identical to what Judaism says; that's what the Qur'an mentions too -Muslims believe Islam to be the renewal of the same message of Judaism and Christianity-:
Transaltion of the meanings of the Qur'an, by Abdullah Yusuf 'Ali : 005.032
: [On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land]
peace 
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Luke Lieberman
beigetreten: Feb 13, 2003
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 7, 2005 - 11:37 AM
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aymanelhakea,
my friend - 30 miles from Tel Aviv is Israel - I agree that the Sini was origonally Egypt's - but the Egyptians had pushed beyond that into Israel proper - by the point they were a stones throw from Tel Aviv they were in Israel - and the Israelis pushed them back out when they were re-armed.
And I beleive there is a great similarity between Islam and Judiasm -in many ways more similarities then either have with Christianity - there are also more ethnic similarities as both Jews and Arabs are Simetic races - that is the great irony and tragedy of the situation -
it seems Jews and Muslims could have walked down a very different road together.
as for a few radical Jews - there are Jerks in America too who have suggested that the solution for our troubles in the middle east is to nuke the entire area into a parking lot -
it is never going to happen - just a few noisy jerks.
If I remember correctly Sadat was calling for a genocide of the Jews of Israel - did he mean it, or was that just hyperbolic rhetoric meant to stirr passions?
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devu2005
beigetreten: May 16, 2005
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 8, 2005 - 07:47 AM
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*Luke: “you can recognize this reality, or you can jump up and down, stomp your feet, hold your breath and try to throw a bunch of stupid accusations my way.”*
*Luke: “I’ll just leave it like this - Bitsy if what I say gets your panties in an uproar - good - something has to. Probably the most excitement "they" have ever seen.”*
Shame on you Luke!
You have to show at least some courtesy to women. You can't be so rude. It is sheer disgrace.
You seem to be a knowledgeable man and also kind hearted' when we read your posts. But we can't appreciate it when you say such things.
*Bitsy: “That huge, long-winded, frequently off-topic post can't possibly all have been meant in response to Sarah's so brief offended reaction!”*
*Bitsy: “You habitually stray from topics in your posts and often include emotional, childish retorts, usually a far cry from truth, solely intended to insult the person you are addressing. All of that is enough in and of itself to ask, are we still to trust that you speak the truth?”*
There is nothing wrong in what she said. In fact I too had observed this in the other thread when you were trying to shift attention from issues to non-issues. Do you know why flowers have petals or some birds have bright colors? It is something like that with you. You try to exaggerate things too much and when somebody tries to point it out you start allegations and bring in topics that are not directly related. People are not here to know what you know about everything in the world but about what you know about the topic. You must understand that people have lot of other work than reading your gigantic posts. I had to spend at least 3 hours to read and comprehend whatever had been posted after my post. Actually I didn't want to but I gathered the courage to read it all. And let me tell you, 65% of it is useless. Why can't people be to the point?
I too had a lot to add to the topic, but after this I do not have the time for that.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 8, 2005 - 10:58 AM
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excuse me Devu -
But as I recall you were accusing a good Iraqi kid of being a fraud just because you didn't agree with what he had to say -
"Hammodi, I have doubts whether you are really Iraqi or just a propaganda maker of USA."
"Tell me what did you lose in Iraq? Did you lose even a nail of your finger? Before representing your country in such an international forum with such erroneous views, you should have asked those people who have lost their near and dear ones at American hands"
remember you are saying this to a kid who lives in Baghdad.
"you are so ignorant why do you express views on such sensitive issues?" - this you said to me when clearly you had no idea what was going on.
"If atall I am a fool I am not as much as Hammodi to welcome foreign invadors to 'rape' their nation. We call such people GADDARS (traitors) of nation." - Devu
here you as calling Hammodi a traitor to his country simply because he has a different view (and a deeper knowledge) of events in Iraq than you do.
- so perhaps you should not be so busy making judgements.
but what I am finding interesting is that Devu and Bitsy are talking about how I get off topic - when neither of them have addressed the TOPIC of this discussion what so ever.
your only "contribution" to the discussion - is to whine and complain about the way I discuss things and my debating style.
if you think that the discussion is getting off topic - then write a post that you think brings the matter back on topic -
instead you are pushing us completely off topic.
now the last thing I have to say about this - is that I simply don't care is Sarah got offended - what I said was a simple truth, I did not say it in a mean way - I simply said that there were people in Europe and the Middle East that were less than appalled by 9/11 - this is a fact.
I can't help it if Sarah gets offended by simple statement of fact.
You know this happens with Israel too - I know Jews who, every time someone tries to make simple and accurate critisims of Israel says - "How dare you, your an anti-semite" or "your anti-jewish"
they try to silence any legitimate critisim by being "offended" so no one can ever critisize Israel because their 'racists'
you notice I do not do that, I defend Israel on the basis of fact and good arguement.
So I am about done being lectured on the fine art of debate by Bitsy and Devu - neither of whome have seen debate with such eloquence that I feel they should be giving others advice on the subject.
honestly Devu - exaggeration? You were comparing AMericans to Nazis - you are in no position to accuse others of exaggerating anything.
as for the fact that we touched on other topics, I was talking to Ayman and the conversation went where it went - if you want to bring it back to topic - then write a post about the topic.
now if no one else has objections, why don't we actually talk about someting of some substance.
London was bombed yesterday.
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Jon Sato
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 8, 2005 - 12:34 PM
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This thread has been closed. There has been an increasing amount of disrespect for others in the posts. Any member wishing to participate in our forums for future discussions must refrain from personal attacks.
For more information on our guidelines, please visit: http://www.takingitglobal.org/discuss/guidelines.html.
Jon Sato
TakingITGlobal.org
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Saladin
beigetreten: Oct 1, 2002
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 2, 2009 - 08:02 AM
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my friend - 30 miles from Tel Aviv is Israel - I agree that the Sini was origonally Egypt's - but the Egyptians had pushed beyond that into Israel proper - by the point they were a stones throw from Tel Aviv they were in Israel - and the Israelis pushed them back out when they were re-armed.
The Egyptians were hardly positioned at "stones" from Tel Aviv, they were than 300 miles away from Tel Aviv in 1973; their maximum advance was 15km east of the Suez Canal; and they weren't pushed back by the Israelis, who instead, managed to flank the Egyptian third army through sending their forces through a "gap" between the Egyptian third and second armies.
Furthermore, Sinai was, has remained, and will continue to remain Egyptian, there's no place for the adjective "originally".
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Shorooq
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 3, 2009 - 05:07 PM
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I didn't get to read every post made by you guys here, but as much as I would like to say I understand why you think Islam is terrorist I just can't, I don't want to get deep in other issues or in the same issue because that would lead to a long long post, but all I am going to say is you can't judge billions of people because of one hundred, every society have it's bad people and good people, so if the ones that you usually see through TV are the bad ones it doesn't mean the whole group is bad.
So it's not Islam's fault that you don't see anyone but those, and in the other hand it doesn't seem like you think attacking Iraq is a terrorist act, or attacking Palestine, or attacking Afghanistan, or Sudan or any other place by a mighty power calling for peace.
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SakyaC
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 5, 2009 - 10:45 AM
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I completely agree with you, that its a few people who feel that they have important missions to better humanity's situation, to destroy enemies that don't really exist. Maybe they are right to resist the powers that be, but one thing is for sure they don't have to destroy innocent life to do so. Its all in vain because it seems that messages get lost in the transfer of ideas between people.
I have great respect for Islam and I understand its message just as I do for all religions, that its to respect our creation and understand our commonallity. But I think that the perspectives of some are way too narrow to keep this in mind and want something more out of life, to be part of something greater than themselves so that they don't simply disappear out of peoples minds and into the obscurity that age and time brings.
I would call on all muslims to unite against this insanity of extreme ideals who's objective is to hurt others, and cast out the fanatics who feel that a few passages of the Qoran are the only way to live, that the entire message of Muhammed is to be human, because that is what we are. Respect eachother and stop the stupidity, listen to the wise people who preach this because they know that we are doomed if we continue to destroy eachother in the name of things we don't fully understand!
Matter of fact, THIS APPLIES TO ALL PEOPLES AND RELIGIONS!! BECOME HUMAN AND FORGET ISLAM CHRISTIANITY JUDAISM HINDUISM BUDDHISM AND EVERY OTHER RELIGION FOR A MOMENT!!! WE LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET!!! THINK ABOUT IT
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Shorooq
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 5, 2009 - 02:55 PM
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sakyacalsoyas1 wrote:
I completely agree with you, that its a few people who feel that they have important missions to better humanity's situation, to destroy enemies that don't really exist. Maybe they are right to resist the powers that be, but one thing is for sure they don't have to destroy innocent life to do so. Its all in vain because it seems that messages get lost in the transfer of ideas between people.
I have great respect for Islam and I understand its message just as I do for all religions, that its to respect our creation and understand our commonallity. But I think that the perspectives of some are way too narrow to keep this in mind and want something more out of life, to be part of something greater than themselves so that they don't simply disappear out of peoples minds and into the obscurity that age and time brings.
I would call on all muslims to unite against this insanity of extreme ideals who's objective is to hurt others, and cast out the fanatics who feel that a few passages of the Qoran are the only way to live, that the entire message of Muhammed is to be human, because that is what we are. Respect eachother and stop the stupidity, listen to the wise people who preach this because they know that we are doomed if we continue to destroy eachother in the name of things we don't fully understand!
Matter of fact, THIS APPLIES TO ALL PEOPLES AND RELIGIONS!! BECOME HUMAN AND FORGET ISLAM CHRISTIANITY JUDAISM HINDUISM BUDDHISM AND EVERY OTHER RELIGION FOR A MOMENT!!! WE LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET!!! THINK ABOUT IT
Listen to the man, he is a wise one indeed.
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Richard Zhang
beigetreten: May 15, 2009
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
July 23, 2009 - 09:57 AM
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I believe that Muslim itself is a very good religion. It's just being taken advantage by those political egomaniac and power-abuser. I believe that if Shiite Muslim countriescan be changed into Sunni Muslim, which means no Supreme Leader, they can be better.
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Janet Mghoi
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
August 13, 2009 - 05:02 AM
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I believe Islam is a very peaceful religion. I never fail to catch up on a local program "Ukumbi wa Kiislamu". From what I gather in every session is that Islam is a religion that advocates for peace. Peace at the individual level, peace at the communal level and ultimately, world peace. However, the reason why most people consider Islam as pro-violence is because of the few extremists who have misinterpreted the calling by particular messages. It should be understood that other religions too have extremists who manipulate certain scriptures for propagation of unholy activities such as terrrorism. However, people should not generalise this and believe Islam is bad. I know Islam is one of the religions that advocates for peace.
This post was edited on: 2009-08-13 at 06:13 AM by: janetmghoi
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CedarMan
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
August 15, 2009 - 04:40 AM
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chengzhao1993 wrote:
I believe that Muslim itself is a very good religion. It's just being taken advantage by those political egomaniac and power-abuser. I believe that if Shiite Muslim countriescan be changed into Sunni Muslim, which means no Supreme Leader, they can be better.
Richard
For someone who is a mere migrant to Canada one could really see how brain washed you have become, I absolutly think you are a disgusting sectarian person who is trying to formet Shiite and Sunni strife when such a thing only works in the favour of your masters.
May I correct you in several points and I appologies for my Sunni Brothers and Sisters on this forum,
AL-QAEDA and USAMA BIN LADAN = BOTH SUNNI AND FOLLOW SUNNI IDIOLOGY.
SEPT 11: THOSE THAT SUPPOSEDLY DID THIS ACT ARE ALL SUNNI AND FOLLOW A SUNNI IDIOLOGY
BALI BOMBERS: FOLLOW SUNNI IDIOLOGY
MUMBAI TERROR ATTACK: SUNNI FOLLOWERS
TALABAN: SUNNI IDIOLOGY
MUNICH 1976: SUNNI FOLLOWERS
The above groups and acts committed do not represent me, nor do they represent the entire Sunni world and nor do they represent in any way Shiite Islam, so I ask you to get educated and become more overt about Islam before you try and seggregating us into various categories.
For we all believe in Allah the most merciful and mighty and his Messenger Mohammad PBH and nothing you or any organisation can ever come between us for we are all of the same holly Quran.
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Marissa Harrington
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Re: Islam - no reason for terror!
September 2, 2009 - 03:33 PM
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As I understand it, any religion can be distorted and misused by those who commit horrible atrocities in the name of their religion.
It was in the name of Christianity that the horribly cruel “Inquisitions" began in 1088. It was also in the name of Christianity the Europeans waged their military Crusades against Muslims in Palestine in 1099.
In fact, even though there are misguided, bigoted hypocrites now committing indiscriminate mass murder in the name of Islam, it has been hypocritical Christians that have caused more trouble during the last sixteen centuries due to military imperialism, colonialism, and even genocide, all in the name of "saving souls" and "converting the heathen."
That was largely because of the erroneous doctrines of men that the Christ Jesus warned against, because those doctrines created the “divine right” of popes, emperors and kings to try to rule the world by living by the sword and hating and killing their enemies, against the advice and teachings of Jesus.
Today, "fundamentalist extremists" calling themselves Christians, Muslims and Jews are causing most of the conflict in the world. (And I learned that Here.)
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