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Luke Lieberman
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Injustice!
May 27, 2005 - 03:34 AM
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Fury at Bali drugs verdict
Friday, May 27, 2005 Posted: 6:51 AM EDT (1051 GMT)
Corby and her mother hug after the verdict.
(CNN) -- Many Australians reacted with anger and shock after a Queensland woman they believe is innocent was found guilty of smuggling drugs into Bali and sentenced to 20 years' jail.
On Friday Indonesian judges found Schapelle Corby "legally and convincingly" guilty of smuggling marijuana into Bali in a case that has generated unprecedented interest among Australians and a diplomatic balancing act for the nation's leader.
The 27-year-old beauty therapist, who has been held in a Bali jail since her arrest on 8 October last year, was sentenced to 20 years in prison and fined 100 million rupiah ($10,700) on Friday.
She was arrested at Ngurah Rai Airport in Denpasar after 4.1 kilograms (9 pounds) of marijuana were found concealed in her boogie board bag.
The case has galvanized public opinion in Australia, with a recent survey showing 90 percent thought Corby was innocent, believing her defense argument that the drugs found in her possession were planted by baggage handlers in Australia.
Corby's defense team was buoyed by news Australian Federal Police and Qantas Airways were investigating the role of baggage handlers in a cocaine smuggling operation.
But on Friday chaotic scenes broke out as the guilty verdict was read, with Corby's family and supporters yelling out from the back of the court that "Schapelle is innocent."
Corby, who had largely maintained her composure during the two hour proceedings, pleaded with her family to calm down before turning to her mother, mouthing the words: "It's OK mum. I'm alright."
With tears streaming down her face Corby then slapped her head with her hands before being allowed to embrace her visibly distressed parents and sister.
Corby was led from the court room surrounded by a wall of security as they struggled to move her through a massive press contingent that had converged on the Denpasar court house to cover the verdict.
Outside the court Corby's sister Mercedes said the family would appeal the verdict.
"This is not fair. We will get Schapelle home."
Her financial backer Australian businessman Ron Bakir described the verdict as "a massive injustice," and said he would do whatever it took to get her home.
Many callers to radio talk shows in Australia were incensed, and some said they regretted making donations to Indonesian tsunami victims, The Associated Press reported. Others called for Australians to boycott Bali.
Even before the sentence, there were calls for Australians to boycott the popular holiday destination of Bali and to ban Indonesian products.
Prime Minister John Howard said he understood why Australians felt so deeply about the Corby case.
"The fact that we are a nation whose young travel so much, it is an issue that has touched this country very directly," he said.
Trying to keep a fragile relationship with Jakarta intact, Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said any criticism of Indonesia or its justice system would be counterproductive and reflect very badly on Australia.
The Australian government had already provided substantial financial support to Corby's cause, he said, and additional legal support had been offered for any appeal.
Dismissed key evidence
The panel of three judges dismissed key evidence prepared by her defense team, including that of Australia prisoner John Ford who backed Corby's claim that she was an unwitting "drug mule."
The judges found Corby's defense team could not prove if there was another person responsible for the drugs.
"The defendant has been proven legally and convincingly guilty" a translator quoted the judges as saying on Sky News.
"We've found that drugs were imported into Indonesia. Importation is illegal in Indonesia and it occurred at Ngurah Rai Airport in Denpasar. This occurred without a licence or any permit to do so. It may not be done by anyone."
"She has been unrepentant to this. It is found the defendant is responsible for the narcotics and this should be considered when handing down the judgment."
Security was stepped up around the Bali courthouse Friday morning with more than 100 officers guarding the building amid concerns of a terror threat.
Already the case has triggered a series of threats against Indonesian diplomatic missions in Australia and Indonesia.
A team of Australian officials will head to Indonesia within the next ten days to discuss a prisoner transfer agreement between the two countries that would see Corby serve her sentence in Australia.
Corby has always maintained her innocence.
During her trial Corby maintained that she was the victim of a drug trafficking operation involving baggage handlers at Australian airports.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Injustice!
May 27, 2005 - 03:52 AM
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This is outragous - the Australian Prime Minsiter is acting like a complete coward!
Just for a little perspective - this same Indonesian court system sentenced the Cleric who masterminded the Bali night club bombing which killed over 200 people to only 2 1/2 years
This poor young woman has just been robbed of the best years of her life - 20 of them, her life is ruined.
I think the prime minster needs to worry less about his relationship with Indonesia and more about his relationship to his people - and the injustice that has just been done to one of his citizens who he is charged to protect!
To give a terrorist 30 months on one hand and this young women 20 years on the other - when there are grave questions as to her guilt -
I think the Australian public has exactly the right Idea - Boycott Indonesia! I will join such a boycott without hesitation.
Lets see how they like having their Tourist industry take a 30% dive.
I don't think the Australians should let up - I think they should keep FULL economic pressure on Indonesia, boycotting both their products and their beaches until Corby is RELEASED - she has already spent a year in this third world prison as it is!
I think Australian charities should stop funding the Indonesians until they understand that this injustice cannot continue and release her back to her family and the costody of the Australian government.
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James Dagger
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Re: Injustice!
May 31, 2005 - 01:18 AM
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well that post sure promoted international harmony
Thanks for your 2 cents there luke, but to post an article and a statement saying that you will boycott indonesia on a site like TIG, a sight which is suppose to promote peace and coexistence between nations...smart idea.
Look, i'll be the first to admit that there is an abuse of rule of law and an injustice to corbey due to the quality of the evidence gained and the harshness of the sentence compared to the cleric. But you have to remember two things:
1) They were gonna make corbey the example to stop anyone esle moving drugs around indonesiaaustralia. A deterent to the Bali 9 prehaps?
2) There was even more speculation about whether the cleric was actually guilty or not, more so then corbey. And trust me he may spend 2 and a half years in jail but the remained of his life circulating around ASIO's watch list, his home will be bugged, he'll be watched whether he knows it or not. Its just what the big guys do.
What would you prefer, that is if your boycott of an already economically disadvantaged country doesnt work? Keeping in mind they were already significantly disadvantaged economically, politically and socially due to the terrorist attack on their own soil, and are still now trying to rebuild a stable tourism economy.
How about we reject the total notion of national sovereignty and take her out by force, it doesnt have to be an invasion. how about a SAS special ops team and a helicopter ride out? Does that sound fair to you? Is that justice?
Truth is we failed, the government was financing her case, but it was a failure from the start. We failed by not addressing the indoaustralia drug trafficking problem with more force. So people like Corbey, whose innocent is still in question, are subject to treatment and court cases like this. You can blame the government all you want, but I can assure you that one of the reasons that howard is doing his best to keep indonesia relations intact is so that stuff like becomes less frequent. Drugs and drug trafficking may never stop but its a fight worth winning.
She got some leanence, drug trafficking in indonesia is punishable by firing squad, the step down from that is life imprisonment. 20 years? Better then life or death right?
Now you can disagree with me all you want, but i have the idea that a boycott isnt really going to help anyone, and is sure as hell not gonna stop drugs moving around south pacific asia and into australia. That and it just doesnt promote any kind of international harmony that so many members of TIG confess to want to achieve.
Thats all i've got to say
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Injustice!
May 31, 2005 - 02:02 AM
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ahh I see - so they were making an example of her and its ok cause she "only" got 20 years.
well if it was your sister I am sure you would be so understanding.
netdude12 - "international harmony" aside this girl is being made to spend the best years of her life in a third world prison - when every witness in her defence was dismissed as "irrelevant".
Injustice is injustice - if it was your best friend would you still be saying "dude, your like, not being harmonious" - give me a break.
That is your arguement - that people should just lay down and accept injustice because taking action might upset "international harmony" - wow... that is really profound.
As the Dude (Big Lebowsky) said "This aggression will not stand, man."
a boycott of Indonesia is probably not as effective as simply boycotting Bali itself as this city seems more interested in throwing the book at harmless little girls then protecting people from terrorism.
As for bugging the clerics house - well then why put him in jail at all? They could have just bugged him - perhaps he was jailed because there was evidence of his participation in a criminal conspiracy to kill 200 people - 80 of them Australian.
Neferet - your problem is that if she is innocent her REPUTATION will be bad - what????????
who cares about her reputation she has to spend 20 years in jail - if she is really innocent then she should be SET FREE.
Netdude, as for if your government should bust her out by force - if that is what I thought should happen - rest assured I would have called for such action.
Notice instead that I called for a boycott -
I don't see any international laws being broken if Australians decide to stop traffiking the Bali beaches until Corbey is free - I see a community pulling together and demanding justice for one of their own - grow some backbone.
you don't need a squad of special forces - you just need some of those wealthy hotel owners - the powerful ones in Bali to say "hey, the Australians stopped coming, I'm losing money here - this girl is too expensive for us to keep - mr. mayor - parole her because I can't afford this."
Money talks - and if they want to stop drug trafficing they they should target the professional trafficers - not little innocent girls.
what exactly do you think putting Corby in jail will do to stop drug trafficing.
Brilliant Netdude - really Corbey was running a major cartel - now that they got her behind bars we should all be safer.
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alyssa collins
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Re: Injustice!
May 31, 2005 - 12:45 PM
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well i dont know much about the case other then what luke has said. but i have to agree with netdud12. it is better to spend 20yrs in prison, then life in prison or death penalty. yes, he got sent to jail for 21/2 years and she got 20. but that is what happens some times and the guy will just end up having the ASIO's watching him. but when she gets out she will be aloud to do what ever. only problem i have with this case is if she really was inocent her rep. will be bad and that will be with her for the rest of her life.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Injustice!
June 1, 2005 - 01:04 AM
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Thanks for the legal lesson - my father is a lawyer.
deterrence - gee thanks for explaining it - so you must agree with the Death Penalty - except that study after study has shown that it doesn't work.
I love how you keep trying to say the court was being fair because they didn't shoot her.
"they arent even close to possessing the same kind of power as the united states or even australia over the war on terror or the treatment of suspected terrorist"
- what more power did the Bali Courts need to put this Cleric away? They seem to be perfectly capable of imposing a stiff sentence. He has less then a week in prison for every person who died.
rationalize all you want - but the relative severity of the crimes as opposed to the sentences imposed - even assuming they are both guilty - speaks for itself.
it is not a matter of power, that is absurd - they are a soveriegn nation, they have all the power they need to prosecute criminals who conspire to kill hundreds of people - what you think they need the US permission? I am sure they had it.
I am sure the Australian government - who lost 80 citizens would have been just fine to see this terrorist given real justice. Why are you trying to say that the court didn't have the "power" to give this guy life in Prison - what are you talking about?
and Yes obviously 9lbs of pot is too much for personal use.
But if she wanted to start growing pot in Indonesia she would just bring SEEDS - what do you think the plan was to put the buds in the ground and hope that they sprout?
If she wanted to start gorwing it she would bring an ounce of SEEDS and it would be more then enough - not 9lbs of bud that is an absurd arguement.
You are sitting here lecturing me on growing pot when you obviously don't know the first thing about it - the kind of soil have very little to do with the potency of weed - the crossbreeding of the lines is what increases potency.
The most potent pot is grown in chemical baths - its called Hydroponic, they don't even grow it in the ground - and Australia has plenty of it already.
But more to the point - she was set up - selling a little weed here and there is one thing - trying to move 9lbs into a Muslim country through the AIRPORT is something that you would have to be out of your mind to attempt.
I find it far more plausible that some baggage handers had a system going - before they put the bags on the plane they stash it away - and they have a handler taking it off the plane on the other side who removes it - that way it doesn't even have to go through costoms. And if some poor shmo gets left holding the bag... not our problem.
anyway since writing this I have gotten a few messages from Australians telling me it is a good idea.
I am not trying to punish poor Indonesian kids for descisions this kangaroo court made - but clearly the Australian people need to make a strong point to people of Bali - "if you want us to continue to feed your tourist economy protect us from violent acts of terrorism and treat our people with respect."
"80 of our people die and you give the guy 2 1/2 years - you find pot in one of our people's suitcases and we should be thankful that you don't shoot her"
Seems the justice system has a rather marked double standard.
Which makes it injustice.
And Netdude - for me TIG is about young people actively getting involved and changing the world - not just some vague idea of international harmony.
I for one am not going to Bali until Corbey is out - there are plenty of beautiful places in that part of the world - so it looks like the struggling economy of Sri Lanka or Tiawan is getting my $$$$ instead.
You spoke of deterrence - and you are right - it does work - I am completely deterred from ever visitng Bali -
They obviously have no interest in deterring terrorists from blowing up a nightclub I am in
- but I might be set up and have to spend 20 years in jail as the Courts dismiss every witness in my defence as irrelevent.
You right sounds like a wonderful vacation destination - if they want to rebuild their tourist economy then they should start by treating their tourists with respect - and worry about protecting the people who come to spend money on their beaches - not give a terrorist 4 days in prison for ever person he killed.
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James Dagger
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Re: Injustice!
June 1, 2005 - 05:15 AM
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Luke, how dare you promote a boycott on a site like T.I.G.
You may see a "community pulling together" but I see another one being torn apart.
Its called a deterrent, any legal studies student knows what it means, that is to make an example of one to stop others from attempting the same, and here's a fact for you...it works, espcially in youth related drug crime. Now shes probably a little old to be in the catergory, but do you really think thats gonna stop the government? How about I give you a quick legal studies lesson:
1. Laws are most effective when the consequences of breaking them are Feared.
2. Consequences will be feared only if they involve stringent punishment. (Remember she was going to get death by firing squad or life impriosonment)
Now if you tell the rest of the world, that we will kill you, regardless of nationality, class or religion. If you attempt to bring drugs into my country. Not only will people listen, but they'll think again. If my best friend, or my sister were thinking moving drugs through bali, they would stop, because they would rather live to move drugs, then die trying. Drug trafficking is about money, not lives.
As for your agruement about the cleric, you know why we put him in jail, and you know why were gonna have him bugged, you know why we're gonna be watching his family and you know why he's probably going to be tourtured within those 2 12 years for information. She'll have some sort of free life after those 20 years, he'll never have one. And she'll have limited rights given to her by her jailers. He wont.All Because the great nations of today have the power to do that.
Indonesia doesnt have the same sort of power, funny enough, they arent even close to possessing the same kind of power as the united states or even australia over the war on terror or the treatment of suspected terrorist. So there will huff and puff about corbey to get a point across. They'll throw the pages of the book at her to show they wont be triffled with. If they were going to throw the whole damn book they would have shot her.
Oh and there was evdience pointing to Corbey as guilty. Just a whole lot of it didn't make the media, or your precious CNN (not like they have ever mislead the public).
Remember, she did try to stop the customs officers from opening the bag. It was in a airlock bag, to stop the pugent smell.She had hiden in her bogie board bag which from the outside would have looked like a set of clothes or swimmers. Her whole family has been charged with drug crime or drug related crime and she was known to be using drugs and dealing small amounts of drugs during a trip to japan. Now everyone was saying that 4.2 kilo bag of coreal head pot, was far to much for personal use and that it was practically worthless in Bali, esp the media including your friends at CNN international and Fox news, whose motto should be "propaganda is us!"
But what they forgot to mention was that the coreal head can be smoked but they have a far better purpose in the growing of MJ. Lets just stop and put all the puzzle pieces together before we get swept up in the media frenzy, 4.2 kilos is too much for personal use and has a greater function in the growth of Pot, Indonesian pot is worth about 8 times the street value in Australia then it is in Bali. Lets add those two pieces with a third that comes from a drug trafficking report 2004 stating that Balinese soil is far more effective in the growth of illict drugs.Producing a higher potency or substance.
THAT's why there is so much of it in Bali!!! Ha who would have thought? And there is a corrupt and ineffective drug enforcement agency there too...so i think if you want to go over there and grow high quality pot and not get caught... so that later you can smuggle it out of indonesia and sell it in australia, for prehaps 8-10 times the price you bought it for
Does that make sense to you, would your best friend or your sister or your mother think that would be a wise yet risky investment if they were trafficking drugs across international waters? I think they would. But that was one of the many motives that Corbey might have had which make sense, which were kept from the public by the media. Do some homework.
You really think those wealthy hotel owners are immediatly gonna go to the politicians and say "Hey, i think you should let her go?". Trust me,the hotels will pull through, they made it through the aftermath of the bali bombing, where 88 australians died and there was NO tourism for a long time. NO what there gonna do first is fire off the staff and cut costs, which means an increased unemployment in indonesia. Now im no economist, but i'm pretty sure that isn't going to help anyone.
The wealthy always find a way to survive and im pretty sure the wealthy stay weathly in bali indonesia by not questioning the government. There's a thought. Your boycott will only affect the poorest and already worse off people in the country, you and half of Australia can kick they while they're down all you want, you feckless thugs. Look at the bigger picture, how many inncent people, truely innocent people, that is those whose innocence AREN'T in question, will be affected by this childish boycott? The only people worse then the "boycotters" are the people who want to stop foreign aid going to the region, those people are just vindictive.
you want injustice, look at the boycotts. Two wrongs dont make a right. I'll conceed to the her facing injustice on the improper gaining of evidence, the dismissal of witnesses, the "guilty until proven innocent" standard and the inquistorial and bias judge. There was injustice there in no doubt, and i feel sorry for her and her family. But there is still questions of her innocence and a boycott wont do anything but harm people already struggling to get through the days.
she deserves another trial. Its certain in my mind. When she appeals she'll be successful. But if she is proven guilty again and gets the death penalty...you know how i said we failed, when i was typing it, i almost deleted it. Thinking things couldnt be THAT bad. But if shes proven guilty again... then i'll truly know we have.
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Injustice!
June 1, 2005 - 09:16 AM
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neferet - actually I am just a concerned citizen who is pissed off at the injustice I am witnessing - I am not oganizing a boycott but rather suggesting that this si the best thing the Australians can do see her set free.
Yopu want me to argue the case like a lawyer - ok here - this Court has a perfect record - 500 convictions out of 500 cases - these judges have litterally never found anyone innocent for any reason.
They would not allow fingerprint experts to inspect her luggage so either confirm or deny the claim that she was set up by a ring of Baggage handler/drug smugglers -
that alone in enough to get the case thrown out by a higher court in any civilized country.
They dismissed all of her witnesses as "irrelevent"
Do you see any justice at all? Don't you think the Indonesians owe it to the Australains to give them a fair trial? If not you think the Australians should sit back and do nothing?
She is not my sister - if she was I would be in Indonesia getting her out one way or another -
as for the boycotts - they are coming - they are already happening - and you guys can be as pissed of with me as you want - but the fact is that the Indonesians did this to themselves -
Between letting the terrorist off with such a light sentance and making a mockery of justice where Corbey is concerned - they have really pissed off the Australian public - and that is difficult to do
you are all worried about the consequences of a boycott - well maybe the corrupt indonesian government should have thought of that when they walked all over Corbey's rights.
If they care about having Australian tourists - then they should have alot more respect.
here are some links to the Boycotts already in progress - read the comments - I have never seen Australians so upset in my life - and rightfully so - they have my full support.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/boycottindonesia
http://www.homesick.com.au/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&topic=11&forum=Soap_Box_Forum
http://www.votehowardout.com/
I could keep going but just type "boycott Indonesia" into google and see what comes up.
I think a boycott will lead to some seriously needed reforms in that country.
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alyssa collins
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Re: Injustice!
June 1, 2005 - 12:20 PM
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luke what are you her attorney. my sister doesnt do anything of any kind. and if she was in such a spot. i would not be siting on the net talking about what i could do but go out and do it. not that i am saying to go out and boycott. you are thinking to rapidly that you are not looking at the result you will cause. so unless you can prove to me that she was inoccent. dont go talking about things like boycotts!
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Luke Lieberman
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Re: Injustice!
June 2, 2005 - 01:38 AM
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Do me a favor and post a link - no hadn't haered about a biological agent mailed to the embassey.
Obviously I don't approve of that at all, and the guy who sent it needs to be arrested.
couple things - first this is why I am in favor of stiffer penalties and police action against terrorist of any form - and why the 2 1/2 year sentance was a joke to me.
When you government finds the guy who physically threatened a bunch of innocent people - I hope they give him more than 30 months.
but also Netdude - I have noticed something about Australians - they generally are a difficult group of people to really piss off - but when their anger is raised - look out.
You talk about International harmony - what does it do to such harmony when a government takes another countries citizen and denies them any measure of justice or a fair trial and puts them in prison for 20 years?
Especially if this is a neighbor with whome you do alot of bussiness - you have to treat people with respect - not guilty until proven innocent.
- understand that the Indonesian courts cannot act in such an irresponsible and unjust way or this kind of problem is BOUND to occur - it is really predictable.
"You want to see australian's upset" - Netdude
Want to?? I don't WANT to see anyone upset - I am simply recognising that they are - and justifiably so - if I was an Australian I would be upset - I wouldn't be trying to kill the Indonesian Embassey - two wrongs do not make a right.
But as I said these courts have already given me second thoughts about traveling to Bali - I don't know if I will ever go regardless if Corbey is released or not.
As for if they will release her now - I doubt it - terrorizing their Embassey will probably make it impossible in the very near term - you can't give in to terrorism - you can't give someone up because you were bombed or threatened.
If the Indonesians gave her up because they were "afraid" it is a major statement of weakness and other terrorist groups would understand that committing criminal acts will get you what you want from the Indonesian government.
Howard and Corbey's attorney are %100 right - by this terrorists actions they are robbing Corbey of the moral high ground and complicating the issue (never mind it is just wrong)
It makes it more difficult to get her out not less.
Regardless I hope we can both agree that the Indonesian courts need serious reform -
- I don't think the Embassey situation was right at all - but I do think the Indonesians brought this on themselves - you can't treat people with such disrespect and not expect them to react forcefully - you can't walk all over someones right just so you can "make an example"
Because this is what happens they were asking for trouble and they got it.
But I agree with you - terrorism in any form is reprehensible, and Australia is a nationa of laws - they should find the guy behind it.
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James Dagger
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Re: Injustice!
June 2, 2005 - 09:40 AM
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Hey luke, i'm not sure if you heard this through your news network but the indonesia embassy in canberra was attack yesterday by biological means. White powder, send through mail from victoria was confirmed to be a biological threat and an act of domestic terrorism. Right now the only thing confirmed was that it wasn't anthroax.
Now luke, i dont think i want to piss you off anymore, its not worth it. Because this isnt about the injustice of corbey anymore, when you brought the cleric into this, it became something more. But now the stakes have been rasied much higher. You want to see australian's upset, your witnessing one.
This is how it starts, with a boycott, an economic attack, but to do something like this. My own people, in my own country. Such an act of definace?Its just so henious. HOW COULD PEOPLE DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS? You want to talk about injustice, how about the possibility that everyone in that embassy could be dead by the end the month, because of a few over zealous corbey supporters. It might end up a hoax, but howard and corbey's defence attorney came out to tell the people that this line of action wasnt going to help anyone. I think there right.
I woke up this morning and read about it in the papers, heard it on the radio, saw it on the news, and talked about it at school. And the only thought that was racing through my mind all day was: What the hell is stopping the guys in victoria from coming to canberra and walking into parliament house with a kilo of this stuff? Seriously, why stop at Corbey, you really want to prove your point why dont you just attack the government? I have this feeling you kill all the politicians and people might start paying attention.
you argue luke but you dont give solutions, only further problems, when this all started happening, when the case really started to take off and make the media. I told a friend of mine that australia should have handled themselves better. We should have pushed for a trial in asutralia, we should have been able to examine the evidence in good faith, we should have signed an extradition treaty, something, anything before it came to what it did.
Its now a domestic terrorist act, you really think that anyone will release her? A terrorist group threatens to blow up the statue of liberty, demanding 12 months free cable. You'd give them free cable right? What if they want want the keys to the war room? or a nuclear missile or one of their terrorist leaders in our custody released?
You don't negoitate with terrorist because there is no clear way to draw the line at where it stops.
Say whatever you want, and i'd listen to you, but give me a solution to this problem. with all respect I say "dont come to me with half a thing".
Right now im just disillutioned, so much so that i dont really care about anything esle. She'll make her appeal and be set free, I know this because of what has happened yesterday and today, so i dont worry about her. I have this feeling the indonesia government will cave because of this move.
but dont boycott bali because it wont help, and dont kill the people in the embassy in the national capitol of australia because your pissed enough and things arent going your way. Out of everything i heard today, the most chilling was this guy on the radio who only a few days before had said he would promote a boycott, but this morning he went a step further, he said and I quote "That a threat on the Embassy was justified and morally right"
"two wrongs never make a right"
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