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Mike
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Does anyone here think colonising Mars is a good idea?
its a short question, but its an extremely hard one to answer if you think of what could happen,
will happen or would happen if we accomplished it.
NASA says we can make it by 2020
Mars Society says we can make it by 2010.
the realists of the world say we'd destroy ourselves before we even launched.
What do you think?
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Grant Price
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i reckon it should be like the foundation of Australia...
Mars can be our new penal colony...
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Martin Kuplens-Ewart
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Why the heck would we do that...
Sep 4, 2001
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Hmm... colonising Mars...
...i still don't get the point of that idea; after all, we have a wonderful planet here that is able
to provide us with the support that we need - we just need to kick ourselves in the butt to get it
working and happy and healthy again...
...Personally, I think that worrying about how/if/when we'll start living on another planet should
be the least of our worries, especially since, well, since there's so much for us to clean up after
down here.
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Mike
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I got one question for you martin!
Did europe wait to fix its own problems before Columbus went on his great Voyage of Discovery.
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Robert Margolis
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Send Name to Mars
Sep 7, 2001
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A friend just sent me the following link:
http://spacekids.hq.nasa.gov/2003/
NASA will enclose a CD on its next Mars Rover expedition and people can have their names placed on
the CD. Tokenism perhaps, yet it is also clever (and inexpensive) marketing.
Humans will likely venture to Mars if one can get a large private/public consortium together to make
it happen. Sometimes people need such projects to remind them there is more than the ubiquitous
minutiae.
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Mike
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Theyve done the 'put your names on a cd and send it to off the planet' before. I think they did it
on the new galileo spacecraft, but i could be wrong.
Im yet to see any valid points against a Mars Mission however. Only points against how *not* to
initiate the public awareness program.
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Robert Margolis
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The big problem with sending humans to Mars is that people want a "MacGuffin" to go for. In other
words, we went to the moon because of the cold war, Columbus was trying to find a trade route that
bypassed the Ottoman Empire, etc.
Especially with people involved with their own problems, it is harder to convince them to foot the
bill to go somewhere without an IMMEDIATE payback. This is probably the reason we do not see large
colonization of the oceans or Antartica either, what people immediately need is here now without
such activities. Even Robert Ballard uses underwater probes instead of going down with people these
days.
I personally am in favor of sending humans to Mars because we need such "bigger" things in our
lives. However, this is more of an ideological argument. The economic case is much weaker (i.e.
there are no special materials unavailable on earth that could payback the large investment if
people go).
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Robert Margolis
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If life is found ...
Sep 9, 2001
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Certainly if life were found on Mars it would be MUCH easier to get support for a human expedition.
Until such an event occurs, people are likely to be satisfied with probes. It is up to the
supporters of a Mars expedition to inspire society to take the next great step.
I just read with sadness the passing of Dr. Frank Drake. It is a shame he did not receive a Nobel.
:-(
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Melanie
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i hate to say it but i really do think that we will colonise mars.
does anyone know if we've found oil on mars yet or if they're looking for it? any vital
resources?
but look at world politics now; we're a planet of nation states that are becoming increasingly
interdependent. the developed countries depend heavily on the underdeveloped/developing countries
due to the high demand of oil and cheap labor to upkeep the former's high quality of living.
so, to curb the increasing power these developing countries have on industrialized countries, the
latter could tap into mars, colonise, send immigrants seeking refuge, there to work the mines/do the
dirty work. mine and drill the resources they need so they won't have to deal with other nation
states; become continental powers, somewhat independent economically.
but if there are no resources (that we can use at the moment in our state of technology) then i
could easily see g8 countries sending people there because of overpopulation and giving them care
packages/benefits for moving to mars.
i DO NOT promote/advocate anything i just wrote above. i would be pretty sickened if any of what i
said happened. we've already made our planet sick, now we want to do it to another...then
another...planet hopping now? planet's aren't whores or drunk college kids on a saturday night;
they can't be messed around with that easily and the consequences of fucking with it can be dire.
but if colonising meant that mars would be made into an eco-friendly tourist spot (recycling, no
fossil fuels, etc...), then..hmmmm...i'm game. there are no beaches are there? well, we can make
one.
i could also see it as a new survivor series...
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Mike
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I understand rsmarg.
Sep 9, 2001
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I understand EXACTLY what rsmarg is saying.
I also must admit to being attracted to Mars solely because it is there, and not because it offers
anything we dont have here.
Except for one thing - the unknown.
There are so many things on Mars we dont know about, things that are so important to us as a
intelligent species that we cannot simply ignore and delay in uncovering for any longer.
Just recently scientists in Hungary, after analysing hundreds of satellite photos from th south pole
of mars, noted that the permafrost disappeared at different rates, and it was a different colour
than it should be. This suggest algae or lychen to be present. Finding life such as this on Mars
solves another unknown variable in the drake equation.
So long as we keep finding things of massive interest on Mars - we simply cant ignore them. Or send
probes to just scratch the surface.
- How much would someone learn of Earth by landing in the Sahara desert?
- - -
Pred.
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Mike
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oil on mars .. .and things
Sep 10, 2001
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I dont know why melanie hated to say that we'd end up on mars one of these days - but anyway.
No theres no oil on mars, its not plausable for it to be there, and its actually impossible. Theres
no water there, perhaps only at the poles, or as a submerged frozen ocean - which there has been
evidence of.
There are traces of H20 in the atmosphere, so there will be water somewhere in the ground. Hopefully
enough for it to be utilised in a future expedition and colonisation - we already know how to
terraform mars, thats not the hard bit.
Mars is abundant in metals and other such resources. Great place to refine rocket fuel - nearly as
good as Jupiter.
On Melanies rather violent suggestion we'd screw up Mars - not in a million years.
The people who would be sent to Mars to begin with would not be civilians, they wouldnt get sent
there for a VERY VERY long time, hundreds of years most likely. Mars would be too fragile to send
uneducated people wanting to make profits. And even when corporate businesses got around to sending
the best of the best to go mine the place and bring back the precious metals (remember, you can make
the rocket fuel for the return trip out of the Mars regolith) i can pretty much assure you the
people going would rather keep the beauty of Mars and the society being born out of it for
themselves, and not share it with the greedy americans and any other businesses back on Earth.
- - -
The UN forbids it being claimed by governments and businesses alike. Although, the presence of the
UN could screw everything up as well. But dont anyone worry, Mike is here to inspire you to go to
the Utopia that is Mars.
- - -
Pred.
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Robert Margolis
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Too Quick on Fusion
Sep 10, 2001
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My apologies if I breezed through the fusion discussion too fast. Here is a good site about the
subject:
http://www.itercanada.com/
There are even some who claim that large human expeditions to the planets will happen AFTER fusion
is perfected. That will be a LONG wait.
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Robert Margolis
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Mining Mars?
Sep 10, 2001
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Mars does not have any resources that do not already exist on earth. With the large costs of going
to Mars vs the availability of resources on earth, there are not going to be any prospectors any
time soon. This is okay as we still need to learn how to preserve/manage our resources on earth
better.
Actually it is the moon that contains a material in abundance that is rare on earth. It is a rare
isotope of Helium called Helium-3. It can be used in nuclear fusion reactors without producing
neutrons (the particles that cause surrounding material to become radioactive). Since there are no
fusion reactors yet, there is no stampede to return to the moon either.
Most likely, mars will be like Antartica, visited by a few scientists, but not colonized for the
foreseeable future.
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Mike
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rsmarg - wheres your sense of adventure?
Sep 11, 2001
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rsmarg - where has your passion gone? or do they lie within the confines of 'normal' thinking.
I chose to live outside the square, i choose to wish for something seen as impossible for thousands
of years, i choose to hope for something seen as pointless, a waste, a mere red dot in the sky.
If thats what Mars is. Then so be it, i want it more if it is as simple as a red dot than as complex
as we have made the spirit that is Earth.
Perhaps others share that view, perhaps no-one does, but i will stop at nothing to show people the
wonder, mystery, adventure, and the hope that Mars could and will provide for human kind.
I hope you feel as strongly about what you hold to be important as i do unto Mars, else your just
like everyone else.
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Robert Margolis
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Visiting vs Living on Mars
Sep 11, 2001
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I think I was misunderstood. I believe that it is important that humans visit and do some of the
interesting exploration of Mars. As I have argued before, such quests are needed now and then to
fire the human spirit and imagination.
This is different from saying that humans should colonize Mars in its current state. Not too many
people live in Antartica and that is a much more hospitable place than Mars currently is.
Obviously, this raises the question of "terraforming" Mars. If life is already there, this is
probably not a good idea. If Mars is truly lifeless, then terraforming becomes a more interesting
issue. But even here, the economic argument for terraforming will not be effective until we have
cheap easy transportation within the solar system.
In addition, the work that is going on here on earth is such areas as fusion technology, quantum
computers, and nanotech is paving the way to explore the planets. Humanity will need these advanced
tools to make such journeys and realize the potential that may await.
Now... is that considered normal thinking? ;-)
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