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Cara
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The War against Terrorism
October 15, 2002 - 02:31 AM
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I have just read dltq's post on terrorism (14/10/02), and have been inspired to post my own thoughts and maybe inspire some discussion about what is going on in the world.
...First I should let you know that I only joined TakingITglobal last week and this will be my first post.... a little nervous??...yes.
Why?…
Because our thoughts about these types of things can often be so personal/mean so much to us, that we get too scared to share them with the rest of the world (especially strangers!!)... But if I don’t say anything, then my thoughts will remain thoughts unshared…
…when I say "these things" I am indirectly referring to terrorism, but by doing so I refer to many underlying issues that mean so much more... culture... religion... politics... freedom... security... death... violence... hate... fear... all of which are inherently intertwined with this concept of "terrorism"
I am not to saying that there is an excuse for violence, such as the recent, most highly publicised acts of violence, which have now been given the name "terrorism", such as the S11 attacks and the Bali attacks just 2 days ago. However, these acts of “terrorism” are not new to this world, and have occurred throughout distant and recent history (through colonization, religious battles, political turmoil and poverty) and continue to plague masses of populations worldwide. Yet since thousands of people from countries that have already won battles for the freedom they so complacently enjoy have died, only now do we read about it on the front cover of our newspapers.
When we hear about war, we fear it… in fact I’m absolutely terrified at the prospect of a war against terrorism. It will mean that potentially hundreds of thousands of people will die, maybe people I know, you know. But is war going to create peace? Maybe for some, probably not for billions of people. Can we try something different for a change??? We’ve been using this war technique for so long now, and if it has been working so well… then why on Earth do we continue to kill ourselves??
The concept of sustainable development states that development should meet the needs of the current generation without compromising the needs of future generations… well… We Are the Future Generation… I would really like to know just how many (younger) people feel that this war represents a positive move towards a sustainable future!?! I don’t know about my parents generation…. But all under 30’s people whom I’ve spoken with (which is by no means “everyone”) … are against war.
I just can’t believe how far out of our hands it is !!!… it would seem that leaders of Westernised nations… George Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard (they’re the only one’s you hear about in the Aussie papers!)… are trying their very hardest to put words into our mouths and brainwash us into believing everything they want us to believe. I mean… is there really only “one” terrorist network in the world (i.e. al Queda)???
I don’t know. That could be because we don’t really know anything. From the day that President George Bush declared this fight against terrorism, I have felt that it has been for many reasons, and “protecting freedom” is just the nicest sounding one in terms of PR. There’s talk about oil, and what about the trillions of $$ the US has spent on weapons for “mass protection”?? If these weapons aren’t used for something, then how is the US Government going to justify spending all of this taxpayers $$?? (okay, that might be a bit extreme, but can’t be ruled out!!). Just because our leaders declare that there is proof against these groups, I don’t feel as though we, as in the general public, have been well enough informed to justify diving head-first into a war through blindly accepting these allegations.
If we could come up with better solutions, do you think that these leaders would change their minds??? (Not that I intended on pointing any fingers, but) I don’t think that George Bush would. He seems to be way too busy avenging the past, rather than providing building blocks for a future of peace.
War is a bandaid solution for peace. In the long term it will only have the opposite side effect, providing platforms for long term grievances between nations, which may never be resolved. Is that a desirable future?? What impacts will it have in our increasingly globalised economy?? What impacts will it have on the fight against global poverty?? The possibilities for negative impacts in all areas of sustainability are stupendous.
I am not usually a cynic. And I apologise if I have offended anyone who might have completely different views on these matters. I’m usually the most optimistic person, but I just can’t seem to find a positive spin for this one! Maybe we can find solutions together, that is, if I’m not alone in my thoughts?!?!
Cara
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Raymond M. Kristiansen
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Re: The War against Terrorism
October 15, 2002 - 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by carasaf
I don’t know. That could be because we don’t really know anything. From the day that President George Bush declared this fight against terrorism, I have felt that it has been for many reasons, and “protecting freedom” is just the nicest sounding one in terms of PR. There’s talk about oil, and what about the trillions of $$ the US has spent on weapons for “mass protection”?? If these weapons aren’t used for something, then how is the US Government going to justify spending all of this taxpayers $$?? (okay, that might be a bit extreme, but can’t be ruled out!!). Just because our leaders declare that there is proof against these groups, I don’t feel as though we, as in the general public, have been well enough informed to justify diving head-first into a war through blindly accepting these allegations.
Yes, the problem is that the (black) gold is so much a part of the picture that it gets difficult to see when a country is doing something out of greed, and when it is out of a Basic NEED to protect one's people. We must remember that Iraq has oil resources which are the second largest in the world or so! All this untapped oil is just waiting to get hauled out of the ground by foreign companies once the sanctions are raised, and guess what companies are very eager to get into Iraq drilling business... All of them! 
I read an interesting small article in the current issue of The Economist about Iraq signing deals with oil companies from all over the world - except the US. I guess this is starting to piss Mr. Bush and others seriously off (we must remember how crucially important it is for the US companies/markets to have a well-founded access to lots of oil - without oil America will stumble).
I think conspiracy theories are interesting - for nothing else, they give us a potential other way of looking at the events of history. And the worst thing is that some conspiracy theories might even be true! *gasp* Such as when people start thinking that what the US really wants is to dominate the world on all spheres ('full fledged dominance') - it is getting more and more clear from some of the papers coming from the White House that this is actually a conscious policy.
Our challenge is to not follow cheap conspiracy theories, neither to naívely just receive whatever info comes out of CNN or other official channels, but to look for the truth. In this case, truth is like the famous needle in the haystack. There are so many layers of information and mis-information being sent from so many different actors that the picture is muddled, at best.
I think your piece of writing was terrific, and I hope to hear more from you and others on this crucial issue!
some links:
http://www.russfound.org/
http://www.moveon.org/
dltq/raymond
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Cara
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Petition?
October 16, 2002 - 11:46 AM
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Okay then...
...I have an idea, which I would love to turn into a reality through joint coordination of fellow interested TIG members...
Do you think that it would be possible for us to start our own petition against the War? With the aim of showing our world leaders that tomorrow's leaders (or future generations) are not interested in leaders of today taking steps that will further jeopardise our prospects for a sustainable and more peaceful future??
I've never done anything like this before, but this is no doubt the most important issue facing us today (and maybe even our lifetime!), and we have 2 choices....(1) to accept that whatever happens is completely out of our control and helplessly do nothing about it.... or (2).... accept that despite the situation seeming completely out of our control... empower ourselves to do something about it anyway!
I realise that we are all probably very busy and don't have time to be fussing around trying to figure out how to start a global email petition... and I'm no exception to this!!! Eeeek!!! WHAT AM I GETTING MYSELF INTO!?!?! but if we don't do anything about it ASAP, our window of opportunity is fast closing... and we might just lose our chance!!!
Any ideas?!?! comments?!?! (in major need for expertise on the technicalities of conducting an email petition!!!)
For anyone reading this on the Updates page... this has been posted in the discussion room under "Peace and War"..."War Against Terrorism"!!
...Oh and by the way... thank you Raymond/dtlq for your response and links to the related web pages... very insightful, yet I could not sign the petition, as it did not recognise my post code!!! Typical for us ozzies!!!
Cara
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Mike
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Re: The War against Terrorism
October 19, 2002 - 11:28 AM
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Perhaps you could start a project (projects.takingitglobal.org) and use the guidelines there to help you get started.
I envisioned more than an email campaign (they aren't the most official nor respected). I thought of a database of people who entered their name, and country via a form that would build the database of anti-war/anti-terror followers. That database could then be forwarded onto U.S statesmen and the President, as well as the media.
What we need here, are numbers, and dedicated young people.
After all, many of us aren't old enough to vote in a world that desperately needs our opinion.
I think it was Martin Kuplens-Ewart who had a similiar idea. Check out his updates page for more info.
But lets get this thing rolling. Email me at mike_blanchard@takingitglobal.org if you want my help.
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Pred.
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Anshu Wijeyeratne
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Fire with fire?
October 20, 2002 - 04:51 AM
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I think that fighting terrorism in the only way we can do it. The terrorists believe strongly in their cause and are as solid as a rock. Therefore we won't be able to convince them with talks. We have tried talking and now its got to the point where we shoot first talk later as we CANNOT afford to have any more attacks. We know that terrorists are bad and we jail those who commit crimes so we got to stop this major type of criminal. Since the police an't handle terrorism it is the army who has to do what they are doing and destroy the homes of the new breed of criminal. Innocent people are always hurt and in this war people will be hurt in proportion as we are fighting larger and more dangerous groups.
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Gerald Derome
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Economic wars
October 20, 2002 - 09:55 AM
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No one in this discussion has mentioned the economic wars that are the causes of most others.
There are those countries and companies backed by countries that seem to want to have and infinite return on their investments.
A capatalist right to own or control resources and wealth is bottomless.
Even in America where much of the world thinks that we all have endless reources and wealth to play with and spare. What is projected is far from the truth. We may have 30% of the population that do not think twice about needless consumption but we also have soup kitchens and food distribution centers for the poor, and, yes, many homeless.
Distribution of wealth (space, resources (food, water, shelter and knowledge)) does not only occur between countries but within every one.
This is why wars will always go on, be. Distribution and control of wealth and resources.
We have all built our cities, countries and economies in fashion that is detrimental to equality.
What most of the worlds inhabitants are really pleading for is to have the basics covered before unecesary waste happens. Fresh air, clean water, natural food, shelter, decent amount of personal space and time, dignified work, and knowledge.
Cover these basics and there would not be any more large scale terrorism or war.
If they stopped making guns and the like, these things could be covered in our lifetime easily. The wasteful rich have to come down to earth.
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Cara
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anyone agree?!
October 21, 2002 - 02:43 AM
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thanks all for your contributions to this discussion in relation to global youth against war on terrorism. Thanx especially to Pred. who I intend to email to find out more details in regards to potentially setting up a database... which by the way sounds like a great idea!! You're absolutely right about the use of a database over a petition... for lots of reasons!
Thank you Atworld and not_neo also for your responses... as the issues brought up are also relevant to this discussion, and I'm sure that your veiws are represent those felt by many around the world.
Not that I intend to criticise anyone's point of veiw at all, but in relation to the comment
"we should shoot first and talk later....we cannot afford to have any more terrorist attacks" ...
I agree that there is great reason for concern that there will be further terrorist attacks on the western world.... against the western way of life. Dispite this very upsetting feeling that our lives can be so easily taken away from us... and those people we know and love, I don't believe that going to war is going to ease that feeling. Maybe in the short term (i.e. after the war... which may last how long?!?!), westerners may feel a little more secure in the knowledge that we can conquer anyone who threatens our way of life... which we (with a lot of help from the US) no doubt can.
But by going to war we are only protecting the lives of "freedom loving" people, and not the lives/livelihoods and rights of those oppressed/innocent people who may end up in the firing line?!?! So will war further divide the western world from the eastern world... yes, probably.... in which case.... with further division between countries, comes further reason for conflict in the future.
Which I guess is where not_neo's discussion on economies comes into play... ie... there will always be war if disparities of wealth exist within and between nations. This may very well be true. In fact, a major force driving this potential war, is the desire to continue being able to satify our lifestyles, which enable us to satisfy our basic needs of food, shelter and security.
Perhaps getting a little off the topic here, but according to the theory of ecological footprinting, we would need an additional 2 planet earths in order for all of earths population to enjoy the lifestyles that we do in the western world... which implies that in order to create equality opportunities for everyone around the world either we get ourselves another couple of planets, or people of the western world sacrifice certain luxuries (this is the shortened version).... we are a long way from achieving either of these.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that is probably worth a whole separte discussion on its own, rather than this discussion which aims to look for a more immediate solution for the immenent threat of war.
Anyway... I've written another novel... sorry for those who got bored and did not make it to the bottom... thanks to those who did!
Cara
PS. If we set up a database of names and contacts of youths against war on terrorism, will there be more than three peoples names on it? please let me know via this discussion page, if there is further interest.
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Gerald Derome
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Where is your first novel?
October 21, 2002 - 10:10 AM
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Is it "on line" or in print?
Look all around you and see that you can and should no longer say "The weatern world" for inequality in lifestyles exists everywhere
Only the best deemed or judged soldiers get preferential treatment after bottomless pocket royalty and before the masses.
Some countries reward the rifle type, some the high tech., some labour organisers, some those that fear the most, those who write the best, some who say the least, some who follow the easiest...
It all depends who rules the offensive or defensive, minds, hearts or bodies. Governments, the people, religion, the media, bussness, business, the U.N., the U.S., the next us; the toxins of mankind float around in the air and we all breathe in the same good bad and ugly large and small physical and mental messages, via many ports. There are so many controlers, organisers, planners, visionaries and probable answers.
There is no comprimised international fair law in ownership and control of the planet as one country.
Both represive and liberal societies are in trouble as frictions keep not only mounting but escalating. Are iraq and n. korea in for equality of wealth and resources of the planets (not_ours gifts) for all the worlds present and future peoples?
S.D. is about reaching compromises on a global scale as to how we should continue to exist. Waringly or Peacefuly???????????????????????????????????????????????
If you know ""the know" thyself, of mankind" problems, then....You continue! no, not homework!
not_neo
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TT
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Re: The War against Terrorism
October 21, 2002 - 10:24 AM
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I do not have much ime but ireally do agree with your stand Carasaf...for a first psoting you chose aright...Let me know more on what up with the petition...The WARShave gone on long enough
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Mike
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An idea . . .
October 22, 2002 - 08:46 AM
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An idea I keep mulling over is to somehow create opportunities for the young people of the world to take an active role in the diplomacy circles of the world. I think to have young people and their interests represented is one thing, but to actively have those interests acted upon and considered by the rich white men that rule the world would be something quite extroadinary.
that said, while the idea is a long way off we can still be heard by voicing our opinion via petitions, databases, action networks, protests, rallies, etc.
Everything helps.
Carasaf - my email is mike_blanchard@takingitglobal.org
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Pred.
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Cara
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FWT - Future Without Terrorism
February 2, 2003 - 10:20 AM
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For anyone that has not already checked it out, the petition originally discussed months ago in this discussion thread, is now up and running, and can be viewed at:
fwt.grokspot.com
...One small step in the course of action towards a future of non-violence.
If you read it and share the same views, please sign it and then send it to everyone you know! The more names we can present to the offices of our global leaders, the more effective this petition will be!!!!
In Friendship,
Cara
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