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Emily Hanson
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WE ARE THE SOLOUTION
March 22, 2005 - 08:48 AM
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Should men and women be equal? This is a question much talked about by many people.
Some hold the opinion that men are superior to women in many ways. For one thing, many jobs men do, can hardly be done by women, who are physically not strong enough; and for another, most of the world's famous scientists are found to be males. Moreover, the whole human society seems to have all along been dominated by men only.
Other people, however, think very differently. They firmly believe that men and women are born equal and women are certainly as talented as men if they are given equal opportunities of education. Just like men, women also have been distinguishing themselves not only in research institutions, but in government bodies and other organizations as well.
Personally, I am firmly standing on the side of those women's rights defenders. Since the men and women are playing an equally important role in all human activities, I simply just don't understand why should they not be on the same footing? Furthermore, from ancient times, there have been two sex groups - men and women. Our human society could not have existed or advanced without either of them. Is it any wonder that men and women ought to be equal and enjoy equal rights accordingly?
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mvuse
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Re: WE ARE THE SOLOUTION
March 22, 2005 - 10:22 AM
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i don't think that men and equal must necessarily be equal but they must have equal opportunities. if equality means that women and men can be expected to do exactly the same things then we'll never have equality because there are physical barriers to things. but if we say that men and women have equal opportunities then it's up to the individual to decide what they want to do or be and they shouldn't be hindered by their gender. after all, gender and gender roles are determined by society so society should be able to change them as well. we weren't made to supplement each other but to complement each other and that doesn't mean there should be a hierarchical relationship. so, should men and women be equal? only if it means they have an equal chance at attaining an equal chance at humanity! as long as it's not just cosmetic equality...
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Mr.Mohamed Eldemerdash
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So, what might a smarter man have said?
March 23, 2005 - 02:49 AM
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So, what might a smarter man have said?
A smarter man would have backed away. If forced at gunpoint to respond, how would a smart man have analyzed the performance gap between male and female science students?
Lawrence Summers, the president of Harvard University, speaking at a conference in January, suggested that women lag because of intrinsic differences between the sexes. He has been in trouble ever since. He has also been apologizing ever since, though his contrition has done little to moderate the furor. Last week, a faculty group voted no confidence in his leadership.
All of which reminds me of an argument I once had with my oldest daughter about the possibility of a woman playing center in the NBA. Detroit Pistons center Ben Wallace is considered -- at 6-foot-9, 240 pounds -- small. Yet my daughter would not concede the absurdity of believing women might play center for men's pro teams. In the years I've been telling that story, other women have had similar responses.
It took me years to understand why. Gender differences, like racial ones, can never be discussed in a vacuum, never be treated as matters of abstract curiosity. There is too much history of those differences being used to justify women's segregation and subjugation.
Apples and oranges
So feminist women and men are understandably leery when talk turns to inborn disparities, especially when couched in terms of things women do less well. Their fear is that conceding we are not the same means conceding we are not equal.
The problem with that hard-line resistance is that it requires defenders of women's rights to pretend women and men are interchangeable.
The absurdity of that thinking can be imputed from the tragedy of a man named Bruce Reimer. In 1966, a botched circumcision essentially amputated his penis. A doctor convinced his parents to raise the 8-month-old boy as a girl.
But, as detailed in John Colapinto's book, "As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl," neither surgery nor socialization convinced Reimer he was a girl -- or even to urinate sitting down. Reimer, who learned the truth when he was a teenager, grew up a stranger in his own body. He killed himself last year.
The story is a caution to people who would have us believe there are no differences between women and men.
Erroneous assumptions
Deborah Tannen, a linguist who often writes about those differences, suggests in a recent L.A. Times piece that we are missing the point. She says arguments over why women don't perform as well as men in certain disciplines proceed from the assumption that the way men do a thing is the standard against which women should be measured.
Men, she wrote, tend to flourish in competitive, combative environments many women find threatening. "It's not that they're not fascinated by the science, don't have the talent to come up with new ideas or are not willing to put long hours into the lab, but that they're put off by the competitive, cutthroat culture of science."
So maybe the key to helping girls flourish is to find ways of playing to their strengths: cooperation, conciliation, bridge-building. Point being, there is more than one way to do science, more than one way to do most things and, certainly, more than one way to be equal. If Summers had understood that, he wouldn't be in trouble now.
I will pass without comment the fact that it takes a woman to tell us what a smart man would have said.
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bkrazy
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Re: WE ARE THE SOLOUTION
March 24, 2005 - 02:42 AM
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I think that we should be equal because although our physical appearances are different and the "strength" are different, it doesn't mean that women shouldn't get the same respect as others. All of us are strong in many ways; in a state of mind. In the past, men were dominant and throughout these hundreds and thousands of years, women has gain some respect and others begin to understand. So if men are still consider to be dominant, how did the women gain respect in these all-time changing events to prove that women can do the same thing as men. They should be equal no matter what others look like or what they can do.
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Martin Tairo
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Women fighting themselves
March 29, 2005 - 02:30 AM
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There is no argument agaist why men and women should not be equal, therefore, they should by all means be equal. But women will have to change their attitudes while tackling issues and stop feeling that they cant do things. You know what? the women who fight for affirmative action have confirmed to the whole world that they can not do anything without help.
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Payabzai
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well
March 29, 2005 - 06:04 AM
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i think in any sense Male is Dominant as compared to female but i just nconfirm this to our muslim societies. coz i dont know that there is such a differance b/w male and female in europian societies or somwhere else. but i just want to say tat Allah Almighty has made Male Dominant.
This doesnot mean tat male should take on female.
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Martin Tairo
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well
June 20, 2005 - 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Payab
i think in any sense Male is Dominant as compared to female but i just nconfirm this to our muslim societies. coz i dont know that there is such a differance b/w male and female in europian societies or somwhere else. but i just want to say tat Allah Almighty has made Male Dominant.
This doesnot mean tat male should take on female.
The muslim society is an excellent example of how womwn should not be treated at this era. Women have been oppressed and stepped on by their male counterparts and it is time they stood against cultural and religious practises that oppress them.
But, do muslim women feel oppressed or it is just a view from outside?? Hey muslim woman, tell me.
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Azira Aziz
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We already are, in my eyes.
June 21, 2005 - 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by mmtairo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Payab
[B]i think in any sense Male is Dominant as compared to female but i just nconfirm this to our muslim societies. coz i dont know that there is such a differance b/w male and female in europian societies or somwhere else. but i just want to say tat Allah Almighty has made Male Dominant.
This doesnot mean tat male should take on female.
The muslim society is an excellent example of how womwn should not be treated at this era. Women have been oppressed and stepped on by their male counterparts and it is time they stood against cultural and religious practises that oppress them.
But, do muslim women feel oppressed or it is just a view from outside?? Hey muslim woman, tell me.[/B][/QUOTE]
I beg your pardon. Muslim text is the pinnacle example of how women should be treated which is with respect and love.
Whatever you see about Muslim society is mostly the outside view, and basically all faults are of a cultural design. I highly advise you to further research before you decide on any conclusion. :P Mind you, there are about 1.5 bill Muslims worldwide, and to generalize us all as women-abusing society is insulting.
Many Muslim men I have known has their faults, rest assured, but disrespecting women (for most) is not one of them.
On my side of the fence, neither I or my friends feel oppressed in the way that most Westerners or the outside world seems to think of us. For example:
a) The donning of the hijab or head covering is by personal choice. Maybe in the Middle East you see some of the ridiculously outdated men have funky rules about no makeup and the like, but in developed countries, it's basically an accepted style. You wear it, good for you, you don't, well it's your choice.
In truth, by covering yourself up you're actually liberated. Nobody judges how big or small your appendages are in various important places because it's covered up. Nobody's sizing you up whether your clothing's cheap or from the chic French boutiques and, in the eyes of all you are a Muslim woman, undefinable and mysterious. Untouchable by superficialities (except prejudice).
Hell, if I'm not ready to be a goody goody myself I would've joined the ranks.
b) Sure, men are given more responsibilities outside home, but it doesn't mean that the roles of women are actually undermined. Most women chose their traditional roles out of choice than actually getting out there and kick some male ego. In Britain, more formerly career-oriented women decided to quit their work entirely in order to be more committed to their husband and children. If it's what they wanted, you can't really stop them from doing it.
However, I concede to the fact that violence against women do happen to all women, regardless of race, religion, whatever and we should all fight against the committed violence against women, not just targeting one single religion because it is convenient to do so.
Thank you. (sorry, got a little pissed over this issue.)
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Martin Tairo
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We already are, in my eyes.
June 23, 2005 - 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by ChibiMelody
However, I concede to the fact that violence against women do happen to all women, regardless of race, religion, whatever and we should all fight against the committed violence against women, not just targeting one single religion because it is convenient to do so.
Thank you. (sorry, got a little pissed over this issue.)
Got you well. What i have learnt from my anthropology is that while you try to make a view on another culture, its always important to know how the people in that culture feel since they are the ones directly affected.
You are a lucky lady living in a developed country where religion comes second after modernism. I come from a province in Kenya where Islam is deeply rooted and i have learnt a few things about Islam. One of them is that they dont give their women any freedom at all. I have seen it myself. My elder sisters went to primary school with their muslim pals but after they graduate from primary, their Muslim colleagues are 'married off' as they continue with high school and university. You can even see the pain in those young ladies as they envy the people they used to call friends with nice jobs while what they have is large families.
My own best friend, Faiz Hassan, a brother to one of my sister's friends, who we went to primary and high school with, could not be allowed to choose his own girlfriend. immediately after high school, his dad got him a job and a wife whom he knew not immediately before he married her. He always calls me to tell me how he hates what has happened and how he envies me since am in the University.
No matter how much you defend your religion, i believe you have that freedom as a result of where you are. If thats not why, then tell me why?
I hope i dont seem pissed off.
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Sarah
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well
June 24, 2005 - 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Payab
i think in any sense Male is Dominant as compared to female but i just nconfirm this to our muslim societies. coz i dont know that there is such a differance b/w male and female in europian societies or somwhere else. but i just want to say tat Allah Almighty has made Male Dominant.
This doesnot mean tat male should take on female.
No. Male are dominant over women. And this is Allahs rule? That is so incorrect. How would a being, neither male nor female discrimminate over one of His creations? And no where have i read did Allah ever state that male are dominant. And no where does anything imply that they have superiority over us. Men have to protcet and provide for us. That is the male duty upon marriage. To protect and provide as much as they can since we are now away from our fathers. Protect us from danger since they are stronger of teh sexes. Provide us with education, food, and clothing as he does himself. I would suggest for you to check your sources before posting such a bold statement.
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Sarah
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We already are, in my eyes.
June 24, 2005 - 12:44 PM
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.[/B][/QUOTE]
You are a lucky lady living in a developed country where religion comes second after modernism. I come from a province in Kenya where Islam is deeply rooted and i have learnt a few things about Islam. One of them is that they dont give their women any freedom at all. I have seen it myself. My elder sisters went to primary school with their muslim pals but after they graduate from primary, their Muslim colleagues are 'married off' as they continue with high school and university. You can even see the pain in those young ladies as they envy the people they used to call friends with nice jobs while what they have is large families.
My own best friend, Faiz Hassan, a brother to one of my sister's friends, who we went to primary and high school with, could not be allowed to choose his own girlfriend. immediately after high school, his dad got him a job and a wife whom he knew not immediately before he married her. He always calls me to tell me how he hates what has happened and how he envies me since am in the University.
No matter how much you defend your religion, i believe you have that freedom as a result of where you are. If thats not why, then tell me why?
I hope i dont seem pissed off.[/B][/QUOTE]
You say learnt a few things about Islam but apparently you haven't. What your witnessing is a community. There is a HUGE difference between religion and culture. Cultures are based around traditions and when actions and life choices are centered around traditions, there isn't much room for religion. Even so,often at time people aren't a good example to follow when studyin a religion. Judge a religion by its book. Now about freedom, if you have read teh Qur'an you would know that Islam offers freedom and right onto women like no other religion, culture, group, or any of alike. I would know, I choose Islam. In Islam, i will provide evidence from the Qur'an upon ur request, it is teh duty for every Muslim to obtain and education. So they can become wiser. Know better what is right from wrong and able to make choices for yourself. Also, it is clearly stated that no one should be married to another with out thier approval. What has happened to ur sis frieds in primary school and to Faiz is unlawful in Islam and they should have reinforced teh Islamic laws onto thier parents. I am a Muslim woman. I wear the Hijab with pride. I am attending a University and is workin on reaching my goals on becoming a lawyer. I follow my life according to the Qur'an and Sunnah as well as I can. All thru my actions and mind set. I am not oppressed.
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Sarah
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Re: WE ARE THE SOLOUTION
June 24, 2005 - 12:52 PM
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Oh and the answer to teh main question "Should men and women be equal?" Men and women are equal. But equalness dosen't mean sameness. There are stuff men can do that we r not capable of or might not do as well as men can do and vice versa. I think women can do anything men can. But as i mentioned, maybe not as well or with ease like them. But for sure men can't do stuff which women can like give child birth.
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dina bedawey
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Re: WE ARE THE SOLOUTION
July 1, 2005 - 07:01 AM
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if you asked me and if you know me or at least red my profile you 'll know what i'm gonna say of course i believe that men and women are equal and i'm one of those people who call for social justice not the rights of women only coz i think if the society was just htere would be no need to call for women rights.
and please do not say anything on the behalf of allah almighty coz you may misinterpret it Allah doesnot make the man dominant or make the woman a follower no says in all books that human beings are equal so who are we to say other wise. besides do not you have a brain to look around and consider before saying stuff like " men are dominant"? or is it convenient to you to say that.
One last thing the muslim society if it apply Islamic values it will be just the perfect example of social justice and woman rights but unfotunatly they do not or do it wrong and that leads to the misunderstanding. what a shame!!!!!1
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deep breath
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WE ARE THE SOLOUTION
July 2, 2005 - 02:37 AM
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YOU ARE RIGHT DINA
BUT IN OUR EAST CULTURE YOU AND ME AND ANY BODY MUST FIGHT ALOT TO PASS THIS BAD IDEA ...I KNOW ALOT OF FEMALE HERE DONT BELIEVE IN THIS IDEA SO HOW WE WILL CHANGE THIS IDEA IF THEY ARE NOT BELIEVE IN THAT ...AND U KNOW FROM ALONG LONG TIME A LOT OF BAD IDEA WERE PUT IN OUR MIND ...HOPE THE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT ARE WE MEAN AND TRY TO CHANGE (WE MUST FIGHT ) 
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dina bedawey
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Re: WE ARE THE SOLOUTION
July 2, 2005 - 05:02 AM
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fight is the story of my life.but it is nice to find someone who is ready to go to the battle with me finally. equality won't happen unless the old thoughts and ideas that have been inherited as part of our human heritage change. When a man stop believing that a woman needs help lest she will break and when the woman herself stop believing that she is weaker and more helpless than the man then we can start with equality. and please notice that i'm not talking only about the arab or islamic world but about human beings in general. maybe there will come a day when a man can look at a woman and not see a sex object and a woman can look to a man without seeing a potentialenemy or even worst, a potential target.
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