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C. Gudz
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Language
February 1, 2005 - 07:14 AM
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http://www.takingitglobal.org/themes/women/
As featured in the Language section of the Women's Art Gallery, make a list of all the derogatory words for women you know in your language. Now make a list of all the derogatory words for men. What are your findings?
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Ben
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Re: Language
February 1, 2005 - 08:21 AM
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OK, i made a list, first using words that i class as derogatory, and shock horror - they came out equal. then i did it again using words that i think other people would class as derogatory and the "women" list had more. What was the point of doing that exercise? most people could have easily guessed the results.
I am all for equality but dwelling on things you can not change (language and language use) will not help the overall movement of womens rights.
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Shreeya Muthusamy
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Re: Language
February 2, 2005 - 08:07 AM
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Whilst I concede that changing language patterns is nowhere near the top of the agenda, in terms of women's rights, I think it's quite an important means by which behavioural change can be achieved.
Language is an entity that is constantly evolving, so, I don't know that I'd agree with the concept that it's something you can't change. Attempts to change language patterns has a role to play in the "hearts and minds" aspect of equality. It is likely to have an impact upon attitudes to women, where "feminine" qualities aren't seen as a means of being derogatory.
Then again, it may be a case of the chicken and the egg argument. i.e. do changes in language patterns effect attitude change, or do changes in attitude result in changed language patterns. I'd suggest they're self re-inforcing, and so, an important aspect.
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Cicero
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Re: Language
February 2, 2005 - 12:46 PM
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In my language (Slovenian). There is overwhelmingly more insult words concerning women - in relation to sexuality than men.
NOTE: Out people deem thmeselves more "conservative" etc.. family oriented talk.. (Short: propaganda bullshit
Ave Futuria
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Brian
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Re: Language
February 3, 2005 - 12:36 PM
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Off the top of my head, I'd say that derogatory words for women in English are far mor offensive and vulgar than the ones for men. I think that's very sad! : (
A followup question: I know it's bad for men, but is it ok for women to use these terms on each other? I think not, but what do you all think?
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alberto
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Re: Language
February 7, 2005 - 04:03 AM
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Shreebs,
I don't think you can change language. In the sense that you, I, all of us and everything is mediated by language. Nature itself is severed by language. Language, as you mention, does evolve, but with it so do you. What is right, wrong, an attitude, a behaviour etc etc.... are all pinned by and have meaning because of the language of the "here and now". Try talking about the chicken and the egg to the Tasaday in the Philippines or to an Egyptian mummy in a museum. Attitude changes do not exist without language. Attitude changes are defined by language itself.
In terms of womens rights it is important probably, in my mind at least, to understand discrimination as a process i.e. as a language. What does it mean to be a woman here and now? What does it feel like? And the same as a history: not thinking of history as something to read through our language, this will always lead to some stereotype of an era, a movie about the 50s is not really about the 50s but about a cliched "50sness". Deconstructing the language of the time and place we're talking about, understanfing its meaning, its evolutions, is therefore key. What is/was discrimantion and how does it feel. The emotional side of the words we use. If we can do this we can maybe understand what is at the roots of a situation and then probably effect it. Discrimination, ghettoization etc... are in language itself. The words we use are the barrier. An idiot is an idiot only because the word (referent) and its meaning (signifier) and all the related imagery and cultural/ideological meaning around it exist. 100 years ago it most probably signified something else (probably wasn't a nice word then either, but it was still different, and in some places meant nothing), in 100 years from now it'll change again and in some places still mean nothing.
I don't think you can change language. But you can change as an individual. The understanding of a reality can change that reality. This means a language change.
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africanbee
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women only
February 10, 2005 - 11:23 AM
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hi every body..
yes, I don't think language have any thing to do with women rights but to prove that women are abused for ages since the very former times..in my language for example there is nothing bad regarding sexuality could touch men. but every thing is on the WOMEN..unless being homo..
" i speak Arabic, Sudanese Arabic"
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David Martin
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Re: Language
February 11, 2005 - 03:16 AM
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I think the point CQUDZ is making by starting this thread is that women have a lowered status that is ingrained in our society. Even our own language reflects this. I'm not so sure that there truly are more derogetory words for women than men, but I know I hear a much higher frequency of words that are deregatory in nature towards women than I do men. Even if its men saying the words at one another.
You can't necessarily change a language, but you can change your own behavior. That in turn could have an impact on the behavior of your peers. If a friend of family member used the word bitch, you could let them know that you don't agree with their use of the word. they may change, they may not, but you may feel better knowing you did the right thing.
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Brian
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Re: Language
February 11, 2005 - 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by cgudz
dwm376s,
i appreciate your comments! Language is not static, it is always evolving, and maleable. To everyone: the purpose of my post was to prompt reflection on the way we use words and how words are gendered and can be sexist. They can reinforce stereotypes.
There is not one single person who is unaffected by language! To say that women's rights and language have no connection, is like saying women's rights exists in a vacuum where no one speaks, writes, reads, and influences each other. Language use is at the centre of how we view the world, it does not exist seperately.
We all learn what words to use, and how to communicate. Don't stop questioning the language you use, or the language around you.Thanks Cheryl! You made me think about this issue a lot.
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C. Gudz
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Re: Language
February 11, 2005 - 11:52 AM
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dwm376s,
i appreciate your comments! Language is not static, it is always evolving, and maleable. To everyone: the purpose of my post was to prompt reflection on the way we use words and how words are gendered and can be sexist. They can reinforce stereotypes.
There is not one single person who is unaffected by language! To say that women's rights and language have no connection, is like saying women's rights exists in a vacuum where no one speaks, writes, reads, and influences each other. Language use is at the centre of how we view the world, it does not exist seperately.
We all learn what words to use, and how to communicate. Don't stop questioning the language you use, or the language around you.
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C. Gudz
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Re: Language
February 24, 2005 - 03:00 AM
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thanks bryank. I think I've always been interested in language and representation. It's fun to analyze communication, and i especially enjoy thinking about language and representation in music, movies and television. You asked this question earlier in the thread and i meant to respond -- re: derogatory words for women
"I know it's bad for men, but is it ok for women to use these terms on each other? I think not, but what do you all think?"
I think the power of words can be turned upside down, when members of the group who occupy this derogatory word reclaim it. For example, the reclaiming of the term 'queer.' Many gay/les/bi/trans/other people use it to describe their more fluid sexual identity that does not fit neatly into straight and gay. But queer used to be (and still is) used in a derogatory way by homophobic people. It's just when many people are using it in a positive way, the derogatory usage becomes less powerful -- which is a great strategy to diminish derogatory words!
Unfortunately, somehow reclaiming derogatory words only works with the right company. It's more challenging to reclaim and use the word queer with people of an older generation or of a different culture.
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Brian
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Re: Language
February 24, 2005 - 03:15 AM
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I've tried reclaiming the word "gay" from time to time. ; )
But on the flip side of that coin, there's a few derogatory words I'd rather not reclaim like the big "B" word. Just kinda wish that one would die on it's own. Rhymes with ditch...
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C. Gudz
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Re: Language
February 24, 2005 - 04:50 AM
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i don't get it gay was never a derogatory term...
i tend to agree with you about 'bitch' - although there is a cool magazine called "bitch: a feminist response to pop culture" which re-signifies the term.
http://www.bitchmagazine.com/
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Brian
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Re: Language
February 24, 2005 - 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by cgudz
i don't get it gay was never a derogatory term...
i tend to agree with you about 'bitch' - although there is a cool magazine called "bitch: a feminist response to pop culture" which re-signifies the term.
http://www.bitchmagazine.com/
Oh, yeah. I guess gay isn't really derogatory. What was I thinking? I'll check that site later...gotta run!
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